Bush is back!

schrafinator,Normally, you are quite calm and not led to generalizations...I am surprised.I realize that the Republicans pandered to the homophobes....but the racists? Hmmm....Tell me, when you tell a minority group that one party is trying to "disenfranchise" them (Kerry), is that not pandering to racists or at the least inciting some racism?Is the popular vote going to Bush(leaguer) and indication that we really are a nation of white bigots? Perhaps it is an indication that most people don't think Mr. Kerry will be able to change things as he would like, despite all good intentions.Get the UN to support our cause, or the cause of freedom or humanity?...When is that going to happen....when has it ever happened?

Don't know how active you are but I believe it is time to kick it up a notch.We can't afford to mourn for any length of time....even Republicans respond when enough of their constituents make their wishes known.I guess we have to spend more time finding out what they are getting ready to enact and stop it before they vote.What was that line?...American democracy isn't easy. You have to put passion, sweat and blood into it to keep it alive.Maybe the fundies have more passion than us....seems that way on this board.

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Gravity, not just a good idea...It's the Law!!

Fundies have more passion for several reasons (IMHO)1. They believe that theirs is the only true "truth"2. They believe that the true Christians are under attack by "the world". Christ said that they would be. Common enemy theme (Where have we seen that before?)3. They believe that activism is the way to get Americans to "turn from their wicked ways" so that God can "heal their land". (Isiah?)What do the rest of us have that can match that?

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Gravity, not just a good idea...It's the Law!!

What evidence does your friend use to support his opinion that the founding fathers of our country wanted no separation of church and state? Especially since:1. No reference to God is in the Constitution.2. A clear reference to freedom of worship and no infringement to that right or forcing of a particular worship is in the first admendment to the Constitution.3. Our treaty with the Barbary kingdom states specifically that this country was not founded as a Christian Nation.4. Jefferson stated that he thinks that Jesus had good moral statements but that the miracles were embellishments to make Jesus divine. Re: Jefferson Bible.5. Washington always left Sunday service before they served communion. When his pastor mentioned that Washington was providing a bad example, ol' George just stopped going to church on communion Sunday.6. John Adams was an avowed Deist as stated in a number of his correspondences.7. Ben Franklin also wrote several letters stating his beliefs as a Deist.Sorry no cites....I can produce them but it would take some time and I thought this was just a rant topic anyway.

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Gravity, not just a good idea...It's the Law!!

Arachnophilia:
"roe v wade said that it is not within the jurisdiction of a government to rule over what a woman does with her own body, including abortion."Hmmm....So the baby is part of her body? For how long? Does this mean we can bring back infanticide as long as the mother approves?Hmmm....Then any woman can injure herself in any way she wants and we are not allowed to interfere?Hmmm...Does this also apply to men?Hmmm...Since she actually needs help in acquiring this abortion, can this ruling also be extended to allow assisted suicide?

Whole-heartedly agree.I thought we were supposed to make things better for our children.Instead, in our selfishness and ignorance, we seem to be stepping on their backs to get what we want now.Perspective....please.

Quote "Further, you idiots are not a minority unfortuneatly. We have to deal with your peoples decisions every day in our schools."JESUSFreak--you apparantly give obedience to a different Jesus than I do. Your fervor is noteworthy but I believe that loving your enemy (not sure these people are your enemy) cannot be shown through insults. Plus Paul states that you can be angry but you should not sin in that anger. IOW, the golden rule still applies.

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Gravity, not just a good idea...It's the Law!!

Quote: "We are at war so that they will never again slaugher us again."????Who are they? When did they slaughter "us" before? Again, perhaps not to the point of this thread. Is it?I was not trying to upset you. As a brother Christian, I was trying to help you when it appeared you were behaving in an unChristian manner. My apologies if I was not clear in my intent.

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Gravity, not just a good idea...It's the Law!!

To what portion of JF's statement does this apply? Or is it directed at a group of posters?

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Gravity, not just a good idea...It's the Law!!

Ned,I would have to agree that our making OBL et al a bunch of persecuted martyrs (perceived in Islamic countries) isn't likely to achieve a peaceful solution. However, He and his group have repeatedly rebuffed any attempt to negotiate short of giving them everything they want and converting to their faith. (Hmmmm...seeing some parallels here...). As long as the fundamentalists see the rest of us as the great evil and as their persecuters it will be so...despite any evidence that we are not trying to persecute them.So what solution is left? Perhaps a middle ground of strong offense with the olive branch being offered behind the scenes. I say offence instead of defense because no castle has ever kept it's inhabitants safe against an assault for very long.