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The Results are in...There is a God! - What now?

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Author Topic:   The Results are in...There is a God! - What now?
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 1 of 159 (303474)
04-12-2006 9:24 AM

What if, one day it turned out that the evidence all pointed to the existence of a supreme deity; responsible for the creation and maintenance of our reality? How would you feel? What would you do?
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Would it, in fact, have any bearing at all on the way you lived your life?
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While I cannot say for certain how I'd react (I don't think many of us honestly can), I feel that it wouldn't really make a difference to me. I've made the decision to live my life regardless of whether or not God exists. Simply due to...well, look at the state of the world, not much happiness, cheer and goodwill to go around; at least not what you would expect if a benevolent God was in charge.
If God is in control, is that the sort of God you would want to worship? Should God actually be worshipped at all?
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 Message 3 by kjsimons, posted 04-12-2006 9:26 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 11 of 159 (303586)
04-12-2006 3:56 PM 		Reply to: Message 10 by EZscience
04-12-2006 12:20 PM

the afterlife
Chiro writes:
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and so would end up damned for eternity.
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EZ writes:
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1. the existence of an afterlife.
2. god's control over your afterlife experience.
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That's just it though, isn't it?
Even though the God might not be running this world to our liking, It still has control over the afterlife.
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That just feels so much like blackmail to me!
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
This message is a reply to:
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 15 of 159 (303745)
04-13-2006 4:19 AM 		Reply to: Message 13 by mike the wiz
04-12-2006 5:43 PM

Well, people are not benevolent. The NT says that only God is good.
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I don't expect that the world is good when I watch people who are not, and they're well, in the world.
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People aren't the only things responsible for causing pain and suffering. Last time i checked, drought, famine, and disease did a pretty good job of it as well. Not to mention a tsunami or two.
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It's like a garden. I expect if there's a gardener, it will be kept perfect, but if weeds grow, should I expect it to be always perfect if the gardener kills them yet they insist on growing? If the weeds insist on growing despite the gardener's attempts with weed-killer, then I suppose he will give up and make a new garden. He might even move a few good plants into his new garden.
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So its "Worship me, or I won't let you into my all-new, all-improved
garden"?
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I expect nothing from God, because his miracles suffice. I am alive and the sun shines, which is enough for me to expect that he exists, because all is good when the sun is on your face and there is no evil around. I wonder why?
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You life might be coming up roses, the sun might be shining upon your face; but that does not mean that the sun isn't shining down upon a scene of adversity. Most of this world lives in adversity, the majority of them, God-fearing.
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But worshipping God would lead to a peaceful world. As far as I can see, it's the none worshippers that aren't interested in God and his ways, which are peace, patience, longsuffering, forgiveness.
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Then you haven't looked very far. As RAZD pointed out, religion has resulted in war and divisiveness for millenia. While religions may claim the mantle of peace, patience, and forgiveness, they have been, moreoften, symbols of strife. In fact, research has actually been done on whether or not religion correlates with higher levels of social health. The results are not good...
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If people aren't interested in good/God, then infact it's the Godless that are what make the planet Godless. For a violent person surely doesn't observe these good attributes God has, nor does he seek them.
Non-religious people do bad things and good things. Religious people do bad things and good things. One cannot credit religion with only good things. See my above point.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
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 Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 04-12-2006 5:43 PM mike the wiz has replied
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 24 of 159 (303767)
04-13-2006 6:15 AM 		Reply to: Message 21 by EZscience
04-13-2006 6:02 AM

Re: Chiroptera demolishes a straw god
And what the hell does 'righteous' really mean, anyway?
Isn't that just a code of behavior dictated by priests?
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Taking what i have observed of Ian's beliefs, i'd take take a stab that righteous means Christian, to him.
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Maybe i'm wrong. let us know, iano.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 33 of 159 (303787)
04-13-2006 7:30 AM 		Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
04-13-2006 7:06 AM

Re: No groveling required
Admittedly, if God gave some insight into the whys and hows, i might be more inclined to enter into a relationship; however, unlikely to the point of worship. If God is that great, God should transcend worship.
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So within the context of your hypothesis, you and God have a lot to discuss. It seems to me that a fair and just God would offer us humans some sort of plea bargain, don't you agree? After all, if mere human D.A.'s can do it, why can't God do it?
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A plea bargain for what, Phat? If i live my life to the best of my ability, oftentimes (subjectively) better than others, who may be of a religious bent, but just don't see the need to worship a God; what have i done wrong? It would be petty for a God to damn me for eternity, simply because i would not call God's name.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 39 of 159 (303795)
04-13-2006 8:00 AM 		Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
04-13-2006 7:45 AM

Re: Dependence is not co-dependence
Of course, in relation to this topic, we have yet to arrive at a consensus as to the character of this God that we would be dependent on.
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Its like being at a job and having a new boss. You are used to doing things your own way and you had the other boss "trained" to allow you room to thrive. Suddenly we have a new boss and new rules.
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I should mention that when I said that God was found to be true in the OP, that discovery does not necessarily change the staus quo. Things do not just become different now that we know that God exists. Thus it would seem to me that the nature of the God could likely be dependent on what we observe reality to be, or moreso that reality is as it is, due to the nature of God.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 7:45 AM Phat has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 8:19 AM U can call me Cookie has replied
  
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 43 of 159 (303802)
04-13-2006 8:16 AM 		Reply to: Message 27 by iano
04-13-2006 6:55 AM

Re: Iano the Righteous (but not self of course)
The word Christian is a label which applies to people who have believed God and what he says and have had God credit (or exchange) that belief as righteousness. It doesn't matter whether one applies the label Christian to the package, what matters is the contents of the package. Righteous or not.
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So then being a Christian is supposedly a good enough substitute for righteousness, seeing that your God is willing to credit one for it on the righteousness score. Couple that with the idea that no one can ever truly be righteous, and it boils down to Christian = Righteous.
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Leaving everyone else out in the cold...unless they become Christian.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by iano, posted 04-13-2006 6:55 AM iano has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 8:22 AM U can call me Cookie has replied
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U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 47 of 159 (303814)
04-13-2006 8:34 AM 		Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
04-13-2006 8:19 AM

Re: The Results are in...but which hypothesis?
Since I did posit in the OP that this God is responsible for the creation and maintenance of reality, and since we are a part of our reality, i think its clear that i mean that God created us.
We could get more technical on this point but i don't see the need to make this discussion more convoluted than it needs to be.
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Just to be clear though, I'm not saying that this God is the Christian God, or Hindu God, or Egyptian God or whatever...Just a God responsible for the way things are.
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Just because God exists does not necessarily mean that everything is 6000 years old.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 8:19 AM Phat has not replied
  
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4982 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005

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Message 48 of 159 (303817)
04-13-2006 8:36 AM 		Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
04-13-2006 8:22 AM

Re: Iano the Righteous (but not self of course)
Don't worry Phat,
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This doen't apply to the OP. was just a side note with Ian.
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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 8:22 AM Phat has not replied
  
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