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Author Topic:   Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?
gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 308 (214825)
06-06-2005 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
06-06-2005 6:40 PM


jar writes:
So do nutcases like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and the wackos in Colorado Springs.
Faith writes:
The difference is that they don't follow a religion that preaches killing infidels such as yourself.
Were you watching Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer when Jerry Falwell was on there with Jesse Jackson.
Falwell said that we should "Blow them away in the name of the Lord."
Maybe he didn't mean infidels, but I'm not exactly sure what he meant.
I can't find the transcript, but here is someone laughing at it:
Atheism and Agnosticism
I'm sure the 9/11 terrorists wanted to "blow them away in the name of the Lord."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 06-06-2005 6:40 PM Faith has not replied

gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 308 (214826)
06-06-2005 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
06-06-2005 7:05 PM


If you aren't Muslim, you are an infidel.
Like if you are not Jewish, you are a gentile.
But Infidel is more general I think, not specific to Islam.
Anyway, to a Muslim, you are an infidel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 06-06-2005 7:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Asgara, posted 06-06-2005 7:28 PM gnojek has replied
 Message 91 by jar, posted 06-06-2005 7:29 PM gnojek has replied

gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 308 (214834)
06-06-2005 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Asgara
06-06-2005 7:28 PM


Sorry, the way this board works, I tend to post things before reading through the entire thread.
But, why would both Christians and Jews be called people of the book?
They don't really have the same book.
???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Asgara, posted 06-06-2005 7:28 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Asgara, posted 06-06-2005 7:42 PM gnojek has not replied
 Message 95 by jar, posted 06-06-2005 7:47 PM gnojek has not replied

gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 308 (214842)
06-06-2005 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by jar
06-06-2005 7:29 PM


Very interesting.
Most interesting to me is:
quote:
Verily, they (Christians) are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
It seems that Islam, even when it reaches out to "allies," focuses primarily on hate.
quote:
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.
This is written almost as if the default practice was to indeed destroy a house of worship if it is not the right kind. Christians are spared this fate for some reason (something to do with Abraham, maybe).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 06-06-2005 7:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Chiroptera, posted 06-06-2005 8:56 PM gnojek has not replied
 Message 106 by jar, posted 06-06-2005 9:53 PM gnojek has replied

gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 262 of 308 (215411)
06-08-2005 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by jar
06-06-2005 9:53 PM


jar writes:
Actually no, if you read it it's talking about things the Christian hated.
First off, let me just say that I am not christian.
But, if I came up to you and asked you if I could help you destroy all that you hate, would you assume that you had a lot of hate in you?
Well, that was the practice at that time in many communities. It was particularly true in Christian Europe. Just look at what they did to existing religions when they moved into an area. LOL
The amazing thing about Islam is that it pretty much ignored what folk believed. Throughout the period when Christian Europe was starting Crusades (and the Crusaders coming back with amazing discoveries like the fact that most of the Muslim World had indoor plumbing) there were Christian and Jewish communities throughout the Muslim world.
Well, I was really just addressing what this one guy said, as if he were speaking for all of Islam. He was trying to say that Christians and Muslims are allies because they hate the same things and vow to destroy those things they mutally hate, or somehting to that effect.
I think it's funny that the guy said:
"I hold out against anything that displeases them."
and " Verily, they (Christians) are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate."
since lately Christians in the US have been displeased with and hating Muslims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 06-06-2005 9:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by jar, posted 06-08-2005 5:26 PM gnojek has replied

gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 266 of 308 (215430)
06-08-2005 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by jar
06-08-2005 5:26 PM


OH!!!
I didn't realize that these were the words of Mohammed!!
Ok, it all makes sense now. I thought this was something that someone recently said. Maybe it's the coloration of this board, I tend to miss a lot here. Eh, o well...
He certainly could speak for all of Islam, he was the founder and prophet. But there is also the issue of translation where the word translated as hate can also be translated as despise or fear or feel threatened by. It was more of a statement of alliance, that your enemies will be my enemies. At the time it was made it was considered as a mutual aid treaty.
But really, why take the negative route?
Why not say that we will help them in everything that they love?
I think the negative way is more pragmatic.
That way you are only allies under duress.
You don't have to help raise every barn, but you'll help if the barn is being raided, makes sense I guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by jar, posted 06-08-2005 5:26 PM jar has not replied

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