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Author Topic:   Inductive Atheism
Chuck77
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 496 of 536 (625397)
07-23-2011 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 493 by Straggler
07-22-2011 8:36 AM


It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Secondly the theory that the only known source of atheists is the human imagination is falsified by the demonstrable existence of actual atheists beyond all reasonable doubt.
Exhibit A: Me!!!!
Strange.
So, you're an atheist because "the human imagination is the only known source of SB'S" which basically says it's a made up phenom and atheists are taking a stance against this "made up" phenom resulting in atheism.
If that's not true how did anyone become an atheist before this assertion form people that SB's existed?
Did atheists just one day say "well, in the very distant future I suppose one day a human being will make up a delusion that SB's exist (how they know this no one knows). Im taking an offensive appoach to this and declaring before the unknown person declares that unknown SB's are real that these are products of the human imagination and not real".
So, if your not an atheist because of the product of the human imagination ( which you say is the only known source of SB's) then, why are you?
Is there some other evidence of SB's other than the human imagination that you are aware of that would falsifiy this theory and cause you to become an atheist for some other reason than where it originated and continues to dwell, in the human imagination?
If ALL people believe in god(s) via the imagination the only way a person can become atheist is by believing that the human imagination made it up. How else could they? If you are atheist for someother reason then it must be against something outside of the human imagination where god(s) only exist. What is it? Is there some other valid evidence that would cause an atheist to become an atheist other than where god(s) only exist, the imagination?
IOW, if you are atheist it's because of, the human imagination, if it's the only source of SB's. You are not A-theist you are A-imagination. You're not against god(s) your against imagination, since imagination is the "only known source of SB's".
Therefore, you are atheist because of the imagination, hence a product of it. Why else?
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 493 by Straggler, posted 07-22-2011 8:36 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 2:08 AM Chuck77 has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 497 of 536 (625404)
07-23-2011 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 12:59 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck you obviously think you are onto something profound here but I have no idea what it is you are trying to say.
I am an atheist because I have concluded that it is far more likely that gods are things invented by humans for a variety of psychological reasons rather than entities that actually exist.
I don't believe in any gods for all the same reasons you don't believe in the existence of things like ethereal unicorns.
Is that really so hard for you to understand?
Richard Dawkins writes:
An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 12:59 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 2:27 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 498 of 536 (625409)
07-23-2011 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Straggler
07-23-2011 2:08 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Chuck you obviously think you are onto something profound here but I have no idea what it is you are trying to say.
Not really. Im not the profound type.
It just makes sense atheists are A-gainst the idea of god(s) becuase the human imagination made them up. So, it's not god(s) there against but the imagination.
Why stop at god(s)? Why not attack other parts of the imagination and be against that too? Why only god(s)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 2:08 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 2:34 AM Chuck77 has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 499 of 536 (625413)
07-23-2011 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 2:27 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
I am no more "against" the idea of gods than I am "against" the idea of ethereal unicorns, magic goblins or any other supernatural concept. Indeed many such concepts make for very entertaining fiction. In that sense I am very much "for" supernatural concepts.
I just don't believe any such entities actually exist.
Seriously Chuck - Aren't you an atheist with regard specifically to Thor?
Now just extend the same way you consider Thor to all gods and you essentially have my position.
It isn't difficult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 2:27 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 3:14 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 500 of 536 (625423)
07-23-2011 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by Straggler
07-23-2011 2:34 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Now just extend the same way you consider Thor to all gods and you essentially have my position.
No, not at all. I actually believe in a God. You don't. You look at it all the same, I don't. I don't believe in Thor because He hasn't proved himself to be real (to me). I have a real God. I have a sifter to sort that out. I don't look at all god(s) the same but you do.
All you have is a total dismissal of what you believe the human imagination made up, (which is god(s) not me.
Again, why just pick god(s) and not other parts of the imagination? Why stop at god(s)? Why the big campaign against made up god(s) of the imagination? and not other thing the imagination makes up?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 2:34 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by bluegenes, posted 07-23-2011 4:00 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 502 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 4:33 AM Chuck77 has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2467 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 501 of 536 (625427)
07-23-2011 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 3:14 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck77 writes:
Again, why just pick god(s) and not other parts of the imagination? Why stop at god(s)? Why the big campaign against made up god(s) of the imagination? and not other thing the imagination makes up?
Good idea. Someone could come up with a theory about "all supernatural beings" being figments of the human imagination, not just gods. Well done! Good thinking, Chuck!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 3:14 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 4:42 AM bluegenes has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 502 of 536 (625430)
07-23-2011 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 3:14 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Now just extend the same way you consider Thor to all gods and you essentially have my position.
Chuck writes:
No, not at all. I actually believe in a God. You don't.
Yes Chuck. Well done. That is kind of the point.
Chuck writes:
All you have is a total dismissal of what you believe the human imagination made up, (which is god(s) not me.
Certainly I would say that making things up is a desperately unreliable and pointless method of coming to conclusions about what does actually exist.
Chuck writes:
Again, why just pick god(s) and not other parts of the imagination?
I don't. Hobbits. Harry Potter. Gandalf. Aslan. Santa Claus. The Easter Bunny. The ethereal yellow squirrel. The purple spotted intangible turtle. The grim reaper. Mary Poppins. Humpty Dumpty. Klingons. Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
The list of things I think humans have made-up and that don't actually exist is rather extensive.
But for some reason the only ones people get upset about are the gods. Why do you think that is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 3:14 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 4:40 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 503 of 536 (625431)
07-23-2011 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by Straggler
07-23-2011 4:33 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
But for some reason the only ones people get upset about are the gods. Why do you think that is?
That a good queastion, you tell me? Is there a A-purple spotted intangible turtle orginization? This is getting off point tho. I know some people think Atheism is a form of religion, which it may but im not sure there are non-stamp collecting orginizations either
My point is, if SB's are products of the imagination then the imagination is the key, not the SN.
Why are there no A-imaginists? Why dwell on theism?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also Straggler, I wanna bring myself down to your level for a second for arguments sake and suspend what I think I know, (which isn't much).
Is the imagination such a bad thing? Lots of good has come from the imagination. Inventions to many to count. Sexual positions that we're never once conceivable and so on. The have all enhanced our way of life.
Maybe, those thoughts and imaginations are not our own. It's atleast as good as bluegenes theory, just the opposite. Both provable and falsifiable by an entity. Works for me. I say the imagination CAN be a good argument for SB's.
Im trying to work the imagination in here as viable, since it's viable for disproving it should be viable also for proving IMO.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 4:33 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 5:38 AM Chuck77 has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 504 of 536 (625432)
07-23-2011 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 501 by bluegenes
07-23-2011 4:00 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
bluegenes writes:
Well done! Good thinking, Chuck!
bluegenes, are you an A-imaginist? Like I asked Straggler, Why dwell on theism?
Oh, and thanks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by bluegenes, posted 07-23-2011 4:00 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by bluegenes, posted 07-23-2011 4:57 AM Chuck77 has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2467 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 505 of 536 (625434)
07-23-2011 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 4:42 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck77 writes:
bluegenes, are you an A-imaginist?
Clearly not.
Chuck writes:
Like I asked Straggler, Why dwell on theism?
No gods mentioned in my GB theory, are there? And I gave you one little fairy as an example of falsification. My last post on the GB thread is about werewolves.
Chuck writes:
Oh, and thanks
You'll always be welcome to my sarcasm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 4:42 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 506 of 536 (625440)
07-23-2011 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 503 by Chuck77
07-23-2011 4:40 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Oh Chuck you are making this so much more difficult for yourself than yoy need to. Consider Fred the very imaginative person.
Fred: I believe in the existence of wibbidoos.
Chuck: What is a wibbidoo?
Fred: A wibbidoo has eight legs, four eyes, sharp fangs and lives on a diet of wibbidonts. Both wibbidoos and wibbidonts are made of a material that is totally undetectable to humans.
Chuck: Why do you believe that wibbidoos exist?
Fred: Because I have imagined them. Don't you think that is a good reason to believe in the existence of wibbidoos? Don't you believe in the existeince of wibbidoos too?
Chuck writes:
Why are there no A-imaginists?
Are you an A-wibbidooist? Why?
Chuck writes:
Is the imagination such a bad thing?
It's a fucking aweseom thing!!!! I never leave home without it personally. It's all that keeps me going in life sometimes.
But despite it's indisputable benefits the human imagination is just not a very effective method of discerning reality from fiction.
Chuck writes:
I say the imagination CAN be a good argument for SB's.
Then it is a good argument for the actual existence of wibbidoos too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Chuck77, posted 07-23-2011 4:40 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Chuck77, posted 08-07-2011 7:47 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 507 of 536 (628174)
08-07-2011 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by Straggler
07-23-2011 5:38 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Then it is a good argument for the actual existence of wibbidoos too.
Can you tell me the amount of followers the wibbidoos have? What is their main doctrine? What is it based on? Where can I find out more about this group...can you provide a link? A church/building? Testimony from thousands of different individuals claiming the same thing?
I of course know you can't so, it's a lame argument to make.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Straggler, posted 07-23-2011 5:38 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by Panda, posted 08-07-2011 8:20 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 509 by Straggler, posted 08-07-2011 11:50 AM Chuck77 has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3703 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 508 of 536 (628178)
08-07-2011 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 507 by Chuck77
08-07-2011 7:47 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck77 writes:
Can you tell me the amount of followers the wibbidoos have? What is their main doctrine? What is it based on? Where can I find out more about this group...can you provide a link? A church/building? Testimony from thousands of different individuals claiming the same thing?
Since I can provide all of those things for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it would appear that you accept that the FSM exists.
Welcome to the fold, fellow Pastafarian.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Chuck77, posted 08-07-2011 7:47 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by Chuck77, posted 08-09-2011 5:21 AM Panda has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 509 of 536 (628185)
08-07-2011 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 507 by Chuck77
08-07-2011 7:47 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
So you have abandoned the idea that human imagination is a sensible source of knowledge as to what does and does not exist and moved onto claiming that human belief is instead. Not much progress there....
Chuck writes:
What is it based on?
Human imagination. As we were discussing before you moved onto belief.
Chuck writes:
Can you tell me the amount of followers the wibbidoos have?
Can you explain why you think this is relevant? Be specific.
Chuck writes:
What is their main doctrine?
Can you explain why you think this is relevant? Be specific.
Chuck writes:
Where can I find out more about this group...can you provide a link? A church/building? Testimony from thousands of different individuals claiming the same thing?
I could name some entities that do have these things which you will no doubt find objectionable. But - more to the point - If wibbidoos had all these things why would you be any more convinced of their existence? This is not a rhetorical question.
Chuck writes:
I of course know you can't so, it's a lame argument to make.
The lame argument being made here is argumentum ad populum

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Chuck77, posted 08-07-2011 7:47 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by Chuck77, posted 08-09-2011 5:32 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 510 of 536 (628363)
08-09-2011 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by Panda
08-07-2011 8:20 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Since I can provide all of those things for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it would appear that you accept that the FSM exists.
I think that was started as a joke, in reference to God(FSM), Amen(R'amen) etc etc wasn't it?
I have a lot more questions on the FSM faith but for now...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Panda, posted 08-07-2011 8:20 AM Panda has not replied

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