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Author Topic:   Inductive Atheism
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 511 of 536 (628364)
08-09-2011 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by Straggler
08-07-2011 11:50 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Can you explain why you think this is relevant? Be specific.
Well, the wibbidoos. are you saying you were using that as an example to show that you just used your imagination to make up a religion? So the wibbidoos aren't real?
Can you explain why you think this is relevant? Be specific.
Well, it would be easier to see their doctrine and what they stole from the Bible, like all other religions and then use THAT to disprove it as another mystery religion like horus, osiris and the rest of the fakes out there, including the wibbidoos that you made up to prove god(s) arent real, for some reason.
If wibbidoos had all these things why would you be any more convinced of their existence? This is not a rhetorical question.
All religions are sprinkled with little "truths". Mostly stolen from other religions, mainly Christianity. It would just bolster the belief in a particular religion if they did have a good amount of followers etc.
The quran is filled with matrial stolen from Christianity. How do they know who Jesus even is? From the Bible, that's how.
The lame argument being made here is argumentum ad populum
Not necessarily, but it does lend credence to an extent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by Straggler, posted 08-07-2011 11:50 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 512 by Straggler, posted 08-09-2011 9:31 AM Chuck77 has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 512 of 536 (628390)
08-09-2011 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 511 by Chuck77
08-09-2011 5:32 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck writes:
are you saying you were using that as an example to show that you just used your imagination to make up a religion?
The wibbidoos don't have a religion. They were an example of something imagined to show the absurdity of you claiming that the ability of humans to imagine something is a sufficiant basis upon which to decide that it exists.
Chuck writes:
So the wibbidoos aren't real?
Well their existence cannot be falsified. But how likely do you think it is that an evidentially baseless product of human imagination might exist?
Straggler writes:
The lame argument being made here is argumentum ad populum
Chuck writes:
Not necessarily, but it does lend credence to an extent.
What adds credence and why? Be specific.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Chuck77, posted 08-09-2011 5:32 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by Chuck77, posted 08-19-2011 7:00 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 513 of 536 (629660)
08-19-2011 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by Straggler
08-09-2011 9:31 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
The wibbidoos don't have a religion. They were an example of something imagined to show the absurdity of you claiming that the ability of humans to imagine something is a sufficiant basis upon which to decide that it exists.
Wow, incredible. So you just took down 2ooo plus years of christianity and old testement beliefs because you made up a group called the wibbidoos.
How does it feel to posses such power?
Well their existence cannot be falsified. But how likely do you think it is that an evidentially baseless product of human imagination might exist?
I havn't seen enough evidence of the wibbidoos to exist yet, unlike christianity where the evidence is plentifull.
What adds credence and why? Be specific.
Huh? You don't see why so many people testifying about Jesus means something? Yes Jesus. That he is alive. Im not aware of any other God that rose from the dead and is alive today. Jesus seperates himself from the mystery religions and all others.
Again, they ALL steal from Christianity is some way, from day one. Jesus is what stands out. That is what is specific to me, Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Straggler, posted 08-09-2011 9:31 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Straggler, posted 08-19-2011 7:19 AM Chuck77 has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 514 of 536 (629665)
08-19-2011 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 513 by Chuck77
08-19-2011 7:00 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
So you are just as atheistic as me with regard to every single supernatural entity except one (or is it three in the case of Christianity - never quite sure).
Chuck writes:
You don't see why so many people testifying about Jesus means something?
What about the personal testimonies pertaining to Allah? Or Vishnu? Or all of the gods of ancient religions? What about the personal testimony of those who are convinced of the veracity of astrology? Crystal healing? Alien abduction? Scientology? Are these worth nothing to you?
The human mind is a wonderful thing Chuck. But it is deeply and demonstrably prone to inventing entities and phenomena which do not exist for reasons that have everything to do with being human and litle to do with the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Chuck77, posted 08-19-2011 7:00 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by Chuck77, posted 08-22-2011 4:22 AM Straggler has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 515 of 536 (630038)
08-22-2011 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Straggler
08-19-2011 7:19 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
So you are just as atheistic as me with regard to every single supernatural entity except one
Yeah, I am, and with Good reason, probably the same as you.
Now, we just need you to see that Christianity is real and that Jesus was a real person who died for your and my sins.
(or is it three in the case of Christianity - never quite sure)
It's one. It's called the God-head. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The trinity is best explained IMO as a married couple. Two seperate people yet they are one. Three distinct personalities all on the same page, so to speak. Same mind, spirit, etc.
What about the personal testimonies pertaining to Allah? Or Vishnu? Or all of the gods of ancient religions? What about the personal testimony of those who are convinced of the veracity of astrology? Crystal healing? Alien abduction? Scientology? Are these worth nothing to you?
Yeah, it's a good misinformation strategy the devil's using to decieve people isn't it?
The human mind is a wonderful thing Chuck. But it is deeply and demonstrably prone to inventing entities and phenomena which do not exist for reasons that have everything to do with being human and litle to do with the truth.
I couldn't agree with you more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Straggler, posted 08-19-2011 7:19 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by Huntard, posted 08-22-2011 5:19 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 520 by Straggler, posted 08-23-2011 1:34 PM Chuck77 has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 516 of 536 (630046)
08-22-2011 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by Chuck77
08-22-2011 4:22 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck77 writes:
Yeah, it's a good misinformation strategy the devil's using to decieve people isn't it?
Quite, he even got you to fall, for it. Or don't you think other religions will claim this of you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Chuck77, posted 08-22-2011 4:22 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Chuck77, posted 08-22-2011 6:37 AM Huntard has replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 517 of 536 (630051)
08-22-2011 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 516 by Huntard
08-22-2011 5:19 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Huntard writes:
Quite, he even got you to fall, for it. Or don't you think other religions will claim this of you?
I don't quite understand. You say the devil has gotten me to believe in Jesus?
That doesn't make any sense, so you'll have to forgive me if I dont address your attempt to sound like you know what it is you're even talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Huntard, posted 08-22-2011 5:19 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 518 by AZPaul3, posted 08-22-2011 7:28 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 519 by Huntard, posted 08-22-2011 8:23 AM Chuck77 has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8493
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 518 of 536 (630056)
08-22-2011 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Chuck77
08-22-2011 6:37 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
You say the devil has gotten me to believe in Jesus?
How can you deny this?
You believe God to be of three when there is only The One. You pray to a lesser instead of to The One. In all things you revere the name of a part, a lesser, rather than the whole, the complete, that is The One.
His omniscience, His infinite power, need no intercessors. No lesser manifestations. No ghosts nor sons nor fathers. No divisions of Godhead. There is only The One.
Yet you direct your veneration elsewhere. That you would believe He has weakness or is incomplete and you do not focus your prayers strictly upon, solely and directly to, The One, but instead invoke the name of some incomplete manifestation, something lesser than the full grace and power that is The One is blasphemy in His presence and to His face. You spit at Him.
Surely Satan has his black finger upon your heart. He has you fooled into believing in and praying to something other than The Whole, The Complete, The Only, The One. You have fallen for Satan's rouse that some lesser can "save" you. That if you invoke the other name rather than His then your reward awaits you. And, indeed, your reward awaits you in Satan's realm.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Chuck77, posted 08-22-2011 6:37 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 519 of 536 (630061)
08-22-2011 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Chuck77
08-22-2011 6:37 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Chuck77 writes:
I don't quite understand. You say the devil has gotten me to believe in Jesus?
Not quite. I'm saying other religions would claim that he did. Just like you claim that he made them belief whatever particular thing they happen to believe in.
My point being that this is an argument that is pretty useless, since you can both claim it, yet neither can show to be correct in claiming it.
Think of it like this: Every argument you use to say that "the other religion" is bogus, is exactly the same argument as that religion will use to say that your religion is bogus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Chuck77, posted 08-22-2011 6:37 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 520 of 536 (630273)
08-23-2011 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by Chuck77
08-22-2011 4:22 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
The human mind is a wonderful thing Chuck. But it is deeply and demonstrably prone to inventing entities and phenomena which do not exist for reasons that have everything to do with being human and litle to do with the truth.
Chuck writes:
I couldn't agree with you more.
Marvelous.
Straggler writes:
So you are just as atheistic as me with regard to every single supernatural entity except one.
Chuck writes:
Yeah, I am, and with Good reason, probably the same as you.
OK.
Chuck writes:
Now, we just need you to see that Christianity is real and that Jesus was a real person who died for your and my sins.
Dohhhh! Fell at the last hurdle. Let me ask you this: Which is more objectively evidenced:
A) The human ability and proclivity to invent supernatural beings OR
B) The actual existence of the God you believe in?
Chuck writes:
Yeah, it's a good misinformation strategy the devil's using to decieve people isn't it?
So you dismiss the subjective "evidence" for every supernatural belief except your own on the basis that they are Satanic deceptions. I assume you have some solid evidential basis for concluding that all other religions are the work of Satan?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Chuck77, posted 08-22-2011 4:22 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by Phat, posted 08-23-2011 6:09 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 524 by Chuck77, posted 08-26-2011 6:36 AM Straggler has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 521 of 536 (630291)
08-23-2011 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Straggler
08-23-2011 1:34 PM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
So you dismiss the subjective "evidence" for every supernatural belief except your own on the basis that they are Satanic deceptions. I assume you have some solid evidential basis for concluding that all other religions are the work of Satan?
Keep in mind that, while you are logically correct in your assessment of Chucks belief paradigm, he cannot be required to provide evidence.
Some would disagree, asserting that philosophy requires some sort of logic to back it up. Chuck77, if you would like to use scriptures as a basis for your logic, lets hear them. This always makes for a better discussion...however, I think that this inductive atheism thread is the wrong place to continue this particular argument.
Either of you feel free to start a new topic, if you would so like, or move to another one and continue your friendly dialogue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Straggler, posted 08-23-2011 1:34 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by Chuck77, posted 08-25-2011 7:35 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 525 by Chuck77, posted 08-26-2011 6:41 AM Phat has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 522 of 536 (630435)
08-25-2011 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by Phat
08-23-2011 6:09 PM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Are you asking us not to discuss the matter anymore? Why? Because your an admin now you all of a sudden feel the need to break up this discussion but before felt no need to contribute?
Who are we bothering here and why is it a problem to discuss what we are?
Your not under your admin profile so are you as a member suggesting we move or start a new thread for nothing?
Edited by Chuck77, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by Phat, posted 08-23-2011 6:09 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by Panda, posted 08-25-2011 11:22 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3703 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 523 of 536 (630457)
08-25-2011 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by Chuck77
08-25-2011 7:35 AM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
I am thinking that Phat is just gently nudging you in the right direction.
But it seems that you would rather Phat logged on as AdminPhat and directly told you to stop being off-topic.
Strange - but each to their own.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Chuck77, posted 08-25-2011 7:35 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 524 of 536 (630546)
08-26-2011 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 520 by Straggler
08-23-2011 1:34 PM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Straggler writes:
Let me ask you this: Which is more objectively evidenced:
A) The human ability and proclivity to invent supernatural beings OR
B) The actual existence of the God you believe in?
That's your problem Straggler, you need to see everything before you can believe it, why?
You know, some people actually just wake up one day and look out the window and say "look at all the evidence of a God".
Isn't nature itself subjective evidence to use in the case of God(s)?
So you dismiss the subjective "evidence" for every supernatural belief except your own on the basis that they are Satanic deceptions. I assume you have some solid evidential basis for concluding that all other religions are the work of Satan?
Well, not ALL are the work of satan of course, many are the work of men. I think you'll agree with that right?
I can't prove to you God exists in the way you are asking BUT we have subjective evidence, what good is it if you never use that evidence?
You are dismissing all of it and wanting God(s) to come knoocking on your door. Why can't you take my word for it? I've experienced it and am telling you God is real.
What you should be doing is asking me how I came to this conclusion and will i show you what to do that YOU can know it too. Why won't you? Are you afraid you might actually have a higher power to report to and mess up your independancy?
BTW, this isn't at all about me trying to convert you, that's NOT why im here but it's a few valid questions IMO.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Straggler, posted 08-23-2011 1:34 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Huntard, posted 08-26-2011 7:37 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 527 by Straggler, posted 08-26-2011 8:42 AM Chuck77 has not replied

Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 525 of 536 (630547)
08-26-2011 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by Phat
08-23-2011 6:09 PM


Re: It's all about your imagination.
Phat writes:
Chuck77, if you would like to use scriptures as a basis for your logic, lets hear them. This always makes for a better discussion...however, I think that this inductive atheism thread is the wrong place to continue this particular argument.
That's why im not using scripture. So why are you asking me to? Im trying to speak in general terms, it's not the easiest way for me to do it without using everything I know that got me to where I am.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by Phat, posted 08-23-2011 6:09 PM Phat has not replied

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