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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Continuation of Flood Discussion | ||||||||||||||||||||
herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Floods don't do this. I agree. I try to imagine the scenario Faith is describing and see if there is any way it could work (you know all too well how that usually turns out though - being accused of misrepresenting her position , etc. )
Another aspect of Walther's Law is that long time periods are required to produce the sand, mud, silt, clay and limestone sediments that comprise the majority of sedimentary layers. Her scenario assumes the sediment was all present when the water begins recession. I can see this type of sequence developing as the ocean levels fall. Do you not think so?
A shoreline region is a production system for that sedimentary material. I certainly see this as a much more viable explanation. Just offering suggestions as to how Faith could provide a valid model / hypothesis. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
My own understanding of Walther's Law is that it plays out over a great deal of time, and that flood deposits are distinctively different from normal shoreline-related deposits. That's not to say that floods don't occur while shoreline-related sedimentary deposits are forming, they of course do, but if big enough to leave a sedimentary record they are recognizable as flood deposits. But Faith's objection to this is that the Flood would have been an event unlike any other in history, as so, we need to understand it differently. On one level I would agree with that. However, I don't think the evidence it left behind would look like it was deposited slowly over long periods of time. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
I thought others might appreciate this resource.
It is the syllabus for the GEOL342 - Sedimentation and Stratigraphy course at the University of Maryland. The bottom half of the page is the lecture and exam schedule with links to the lecture notes. Of particular interest to this thread would be: Sequence stratigraphy quote: HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible. |
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Your posts have been heavy with jargon lately, HBD, if you want a reason why I generally don't respond to them. Is that why you thought I was being patronizing? I really try to not purposely use terms that you wouldn't understand. If I do, you just need to ask or break out google.
In this case I have to ask what is an "energy gradient?" Well, look at the diagram of Walther's Law again.
Where in this sequence does the water have the highest energy (from motion)? Yes, at the shore. The lowest energy region is the furthest offshore. This is why foram oozes do not form near shore, there is too much energy in the wave motion to allow such fine particles to fall out of solution. Likewise, there is not enough energy in the offshore water to keep sand particles suspended, so they fall out near shore. An easy way to demonstrate this idea is to take a rock that is about 1/2" in diameter and one that is about 1/4" in diameter. Drop them both at the same time from about 10" from a surface top. Which one hits first? Correct, they both hit at the same time because gravity accelerates them at the same rate. Now take those same rocks and drop them into a container of water (2 - 4 liters should do it) at the same time. Now which one hits bottom first? The larger one. Why? Has gravity changed? No, it is because the water exerts a force upon the stones. The heavier rock is able to overcome the water's resistant force faster than the smaller rock. Now imagine (unless you have a way of actually doing this, then by all means do it) doing the same experiment in a channel of running water. Which rock will be displaced further down the current? The small one of course. Why? Because the smaller rock remains suspended for a longer time. What does this have to do with anything? The smaller the particle, the more the water's energy is able to act upon it and the longer it will remain in suspension. That is why we have sediment grading such as depicted by Walther's Law. As the "energy gradient" shifts towards or away from shore, so does the sediment. You will find these "energy gradients" in all kinds of depositional systems. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
But I got more interested in how there's a lot of tectonic bashing going on there. Silurian, Devonian, Carboniferous particularly. And when it's not bashing it seems to be twisting and pulling and distorting a lot. Makes one wonder how any of the layers of the Geologic Column managed to survive intact at all. Think about that Faith! You imagine that type of tectonic movement happening 135,000 times faster (540 million years of plate motion condensed into 4,000 years). Even if you start from Pangea (around 300 mya) the rate is 75,000 times as fast. You are practically watching that video in actual speed. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Real quick here ...
But you'd have to show that this deposition that is going on today builds on the existing Geo Column but all the examples given are not of that. Just because deposition continues in the present doesn't mean it is continuing to add to that time-honored structure so dear to the hearts of Old Earthers and Evos. Not totally sure what you are asking for here. It seems you have some ambiguous qualifiers that make it impossible to meet the demands. But try these interesting images from Canada:
quote: quote: HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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