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| Author | Topic: Open-minded Skepticism | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Jon Inactive Member |
And how do we figure out what causes produce what effects? Love your enemies!
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Coyote Member (Idle past 149 days)  Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I disagree about the cause and effect--explaining facts is the role of hypotheses and theories. From something I did a long time ago: Observation: any information collected with the senses. And as explained by Heinlein many years ago, Piling up facts is not science--science is facts-and-theories. Facts alone have limited use and lack meaning; a valid theory organizes them into far greater usefulness. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 156 days)  Posts: 1494 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
Let's not play dueling oversimplifications, though. It's one thing to describe the methodology of empirical inquiry properly, but defining science as an objective process of Baconian induction from unorganized observations is for schoolkids. The way we approach and interpret facts, and the way we define our knowledge and its limitations, are laden with cultural and personal baggage. If we don't acknowledge that science is a human endeavor with a socially embedded history, we're really not talking about the entire matter. Edited by MrHambre, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 149 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I'm willing to keep an open mind, but not open to just any nonsense blowing in the wind. That's where you get "airheads." Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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mikechell Inactive Member |
Your own definition of "fact" is that cause and effect must be repeatedly observable. evidence over faith ... observation over theory
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Jon Inactive Member |
Coyote's definition of fact has nothing to do with cause and effect. We can observe that the sun rises in the east without any reference to the possible causes or effects of this event. Love your enemies!
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mikechell Inactive Member |
Facts mean nothing. Observation is worthless. Your beliefs win and nothing in the world is definite fact. Off I go into my own world, you can keep this one. evidence over faith ... observation over theory
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 156 days) Posts: 1494 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
That's good to know. Just out of curiosity, what in anything I posted seems nonsensical to you? I'm just wondering whether your intrepid anti-nonsense stance was articulated for my benefit.
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1.61803 Member  Posts: 2811 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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We here a EvC would argue over any and everything regardless of what the subject matter. I once saw a thread several pages long over what the word superstition meant. (not kidding) Pedantry and sarcasm with a smattering of provocation abound, however once you get a flavor of the various forumites you'll see it is just a bunch of argumentative over educated ol' buzzards waiting for fresh meat. Welcome to the fray, it's all in fun. Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given. Edited by 1.61803, : *Added postscript "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Coyote Member (Idle past 149 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You seem to be deliberately misstating what I have said. None of your response bears any relation to what was in my posts. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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ringo Member  Posts: 16128 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.1 |
That is the bottom line: we are each in a world of our own. We can only communicate about the areas where our perceptions happen to coincide. Observation is only worth what we can agree on. Facts mean only what we agree they mean. Nothing indeed is "definite fact", only agreed fact.
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Omnivorous Member (Idle past 1011 days)  Posts: 3808 From: Adirondackia Joined:
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When a poster gets a bunch of challenging posts, we call it a dog pile: anyone here any length of time has enjoyed that disheartening experience. Fresh perspectives are not just welcome here, they're vitally important. Don't go away mad. Don't go away at all. "If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
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mikechell Inactive Member |
YOU seem to believe I was talking to you and your statements. You're observational skills might need a little ... honing. evidence over faith ... observation over theory
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 156 days) Posts: 1494 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
Yours might too, if you thought you observed anyone claiming that Facts mean nothing.
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mikechell Inactive Member |
evidence over faith ... observation over theory
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