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Author Topic:   Did Jesus teach reincarnation?
Juvenissun
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Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 170 of 230 (880529)
08-07-2020 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by NoNukes
01-21-2016 1:11 PM


Re: Shi ites have the same confusion with the Mahdi
Is this question even possible to answer? Do we know enough about Elijah's current state to say whether his return to earth requires resurrection, reincarnation, or something less?

If we see Elijah in the future (this is a bad assumption, because I don't know how to identify him), by definition, he "resurrected", but not "reincarnated".

There is no reincarnation in Christianity. Otherwise, the doctrine is not Christianity.

Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed broken quote


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 171 of 230 (880530)
08-07-2020 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Base12
08-07-2020 2:23 AM


I consider myself a Fundamental Christian, yet I believe that Reincarnation is in fact Biblical.
Yes, Jesus really did teach Reincarnation.

I guess you may mistake "incarnation" as "reincarnation".
If you did not, then please tell me one case of reincarnation suggested in the Scripture.


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 173 of 230 (880561)
08-07-2020 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Base12
08-07-2020 1:00 PM


Assume your story is believable. Why should Adam still keep his old name? Don't say you do not know. Because your reincarnation argument leans totally on the name change of Eve.

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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 175 of 230 (880584)
08-07-2020 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Base12
08-07-2020 2:54 PM


The bottom line here is that the only way for Adam and Ishshah's punishment to occur, they had to have been placed into completely different bodies with physiology designed to produce children through conception and birth via the Womb.

The idea of reincarnation seems belongs to Buddhism. In Buddhism, the reincarnated life could be anything similar or unsimilar to the earlier life. It is NOT appropriate to use that concept on Christianity.

Another fatal problem in your argument is the definition of "death". In Christianity, death is NOT defined as you think. It is not the same as a biological death.

Put Adam and Eve aside, do you have another example of "reincarnation" described in the Scripture?


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 177 of 230 (880619)
08-08-2020 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Base12
08-07-2020 8:46 PM


Thanks much for the elaboration. However, to your disappointment, I only see "resurrection" in your argument, but not "reincarnation".

Reincarnation means I had a previous "human" life.
If so, how many times can one "reincarnate"?

Nothing wrong with your idea. I just think you used a wrong word, which leads to serious doctrine error.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 184 of 230 (880664)
08-09-2020 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Base12
08-08-2020 10:22 PM


The Unsaved get reincarnated back into human form again.

Terrible concept.
It IS what the Buddhism emphasized.
I don't even want you to give me example on this one. It is WRONG.
(You may ask me why and we go from there).


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 185 of 230 (880665)
08-09-2020 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Base12
08-08-2020 10:22 PM


If everyone received the exact same punishment (i.e. burning forever or annihilation), then there would be no point in judging 'according to their works'.

That is true.
Just like faithfuls will get different heavenly rewards, unfaithful will also get different degree of punishment.

BUT, whatever the reward or punishment is, it will be a one time deal. There is no room to repeat the earthly experience.

Do you know there are 18 levels of "hell" in oriental theology? There SHOULD be wide space in between the Heaven and the Lake of Fire, where a lot of unfaithful will go for eternal life.

No Reincarnation.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 186 of 230 (880666)
08-09-2020 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Base12
08-09-2020 1:02 AM


I'm fairly certain that the reason the Beast and the Dragon have seven heads is because that is how many times they have reincarnated...

How many times have YOU reincarnated?
One head means ... none?

Do you suspect that we have many reincarnated Jews wondering around in our society today? There will be no end to this fictional thought.


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 187 of 230 (880667)
08-09-2020 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Base12
08-08-2020 10:22 PM


What is the point of adding up every sin if it only takes one sin to be guilty? That would be an incredibly unfair system.

Of course there is a critical point to it.
If one is not "saved", then the more sinful one is (sinned more times), the more punishment one would get when he is put in "outside of the Heaven" (which includes the Lake of Fire). And remember, this punishment lasts "forever" long. You can carry one small bag to walk 10 miles. But how would you feel if you carry the same bag, or even a smaller bag, but walk 10,000 miles?

Does it take "one" sin to be guilty? No. Even a person of "no" sin, he is still guilty. It may not sound right to you, but that is the Christianity, fair or not. Just like the Bible says: are you criticizing God being unfair?

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 192 of 230 (880683)
08-09-2020 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
08-09-2020 9:50 AM


Re: Some questions
1) Why SHOULD there be a wide space? Social distancing?
2) What are the unfaithful guilty of? In your mind, what is the final(or the first) straw that broke the camels back?

3)What is the point of increasing punishment? Is not banishment to outer darkness enough? What possible reason would God have to inflict differing degrees of punishment?

4)What is the difference between reincarnation and redemption in a karmic sense?

5)Is reincarnation in any way similar to rejuvenation?

6) What do you personally believe that you need to have in regards to faith that will keep you in communion and on "the team"?

Boy, this looks like a seminary school entrance test.
1. The "reason" is very simple: The Heaven has a boundary. Outside the Heaven is not the Heaven. So is the territory for the Lake of Fire. And, there HAS TO BE space in between the two. The Lake of Fire is not going to be in close contact to the Heaven. (that will not be GOOD in the eyes of God)

And this is related to your question 3:

3. There are two major places people will go: 1. Heaven; 2. Not Heaven. People in each places WILL receive different prices, rewards, or punishment. That is all the GWH Judgement is about. Otherwise, there is no need for that Judgement. As a consequence, there are better person and less better person, etc. among those who are NOT saved. Not every unfaithful will be ended in the Lake of Fire. I do expect to visit my unsaved friends in the future at places outside the Heaven, but also outside the Lake of Fire. (this understanding is based on the last few chapters of Revelation)

I think this is very very significant. We are not satisfied with a one-time only salary raise. We want a compounded salary raise. It does not sound much if I have $10 more than you. But if the inequality is at the forever time scale, then it becomes very very significant. That is why even we are saved, we still want to run toward the goal as hard as we could.

This is also related to your question in another post. To be saved is based on faith ONLY. But how glory one will be when we first arrived to the Heaven will, indeed, depend on the work one did on the earth.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 195 of 230 (880689)
08-09-2020 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
08-09-2020 9:50 AM


Re: Some questions
2) What are the unfaithful guilty of? In your mind, what is the final(or the first) straw that broke the camels back?

4)What is the difference between reincarnation and redemption in a karmic sense?

5)Is reincarnation in any way similar to rejuvenation?

6) What do you personally believe that you need to have in regards to faith that will keep you in communion and on "the team"?

2. Everyone is guilty since conception. Evidence: we live in a cursed world.
6. As long as people are "saved", there is no need to have the same interpretation on Bible verses. It is quite healthy for every faithful to have a different interpretation in Christian theology.

Reincarnation in Buddhism:

4. Reincarnation does not need any redemption.

5. One rejuvenated to the situation of his young (earlier) stage. One reincarnated to a later one with various degree of continuity, consciously or unconsciously.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 200 of 230 (880715)
08-09-2020 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Base12
08-09-2020 7:20 PM


WAS, IS NOT, AND YET IS = REINCARNATION

NO! It should be:

WAS, IS NOT, AND YET IS = INCARNATION


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 206 of 230 (880732)
08-10-2020 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Base12
08-10-2020 1:48 PM


Re: Three Opinions
How much time you spent to put all these pieces together? Or you just copy other's idea?

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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 210 of 230 (880760)
08-11-2020 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by ringo
08-11-2020 8:47 AM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
That's the whole point of critical thinking: to free us from belief and connect us to reality.

Critical thinking is limited by logic. There ARE truth beyond logic.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 214 of 230 (880812)
08-11-2020 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by ringo
08-11-2020 12:19 PM


Re: Confessions Of Saint Phatticus
The problem with that idea is that the people who believe in "truth beyond logic" can't agree on what that truth is.

It does not matter. Scientists rarely agree on new things or new feature. But they know it is something new.


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