Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9034 total)
83 online now:
dwise1, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Phat (AdminPhat) (4 members, 79 visitors)
Newest Member: Barry Deaborough
Post Volume: Total: 885,547 Year: 3,193/14,102 Month: 134/724 Week: 76/96 Day: 5/16 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Reviewing the dark side of your bible
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 42 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 46 of 74 (883270)
11-25-2020 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
11-24-2020 1:51 PM


The real message in the parables was not addressed to believers
.

Suddenly you and ICANT are bringing good questions to the front, (it sounds like a twist in the force has overtaken; which is the opposite of the slow-pace of monotony)

.

To speak through parables is an indication of a message addressed for a selected audience, (not believers), and at the same time, being a parable is not rejecting the believers, it is not rejecting anyone; the real message is encrypted or sealed in the parable itself, and it is not revealed to all; so it is not offending anyone's preferences. That is how the bible could be published to all regardless of their choices, cultural barriers, philosophical preferences and beliefs. Also, it means not all people would understand the message in the parables.

The bible was written to be addressed to all, whether believers or not. But the real message in each parable was in no way addressed to believers, specifically because the knowledge of the truth (that 'believing' is of the devil) could fatally harm their preferences, their theologies, their doctrines, observances, and their religious traditions.

This is how you know what the truth is: A judge of the Court applies seeing, hearing, and verifying for the ascertained truth of the facts.

. . . . . Sample of paraphrased writing that is self-evident:

ח Being a judge in Yisrael don't you inquire to know and ascertain instead of believing? One speaks what one knows and testifies to what one has eye-witnessed, and yet, in the role of a judge, you do not accept a testimony if you have to believe instead of ascertaining.

ט If 'believing' isn’t what you do when a witness is being told trivial current things, then does the Justice that remains forever not to require much less belief if I tell you about things of highest value? No man ascends into heaven unless he has retained in him the one who descends from heaven: The word that I AM יהוה that glitters in heaven.

. . . . .

A scripture as originally written is self-evident, by the same word you will know it is the truth, according to the living word become flesh, through 5 parables and several dialogues.

.

. . . . . In The Light, (restored paraphrased writings\ unpublished archives)

Parable of the Road – The light is with you in a brief time. Walk on the road in the time you have the light so that darkness doesn't overtake you. He who walks in obscurity believes he is on the road but doesn't know where he's going. In the time you have the light, see the road in the light so that you may become the first-fruit of light.

Brief-time: Immediate time. ½. Abbreviated sequence of time.
Dividing of a time; 3,5 – Time in immediate sequence; intermediated.
… he believes he is on the road – Synonym: Not seeing the road.
Bible in Basic English – ... in the dark has no knowledge of where he is going.
Vulgate – ... walks in darkness knows not where he goes.

And If you feel that you can’t go on [ a system of ] just believe
And you know that you can’t go wrong,
In the Light, you’ll find the road.

Parable of the Trail – Is there not a half-day of daylight? A man may go about a half-day without falling because he sees the trail in the light. But if a man goes about in the obscure, believing he is on the trail, he may have a fall because the light is not in the fact that he believes or not.

Half-day: ½. A mediated sequence of time that is a dividing of time.
… believing he is on the trail – Synonym: Not seeing the trail.
Bible in Basic English – ...he may have a fall because the light is not in him.
Vulgate – ...because there is no light in him.

How long will be the overcoming of these wonders?
These wonders will overcome until 1,335. Until a time: Phrimi – 1,000
times: Términa – 300 and a Dividing time: ½. Mediata – 3,5

Now that no man is justified by the [ imposition of ] law is clear. For the righteous shall live because of his fidelity ( permanence ) to יהוה

Fidelitate – Ancient Roman Language Fidelità – Italian Fidelitas – Medieval Latin

If you have אמנה Êmunah-fidelity to יהוה like a mustard seed, you can say to the sycamore-tree, be uprooted and planted in the sea and instantly it will obey you. The size of the seed implies that it will not be consumed by the birds. If אמנה Êmunah ( fidelity ) is like a mustard seed then it will endure since there is no bird bill that can grab the smallest seed. אמנה Êmunah/Fidelity is evidence of things that appear not: that from the invisible word that is heard, visible things might be made. Without the supervision of men; Walking not by sight. Not to be seen by them.
On that day the deaf will hear [ sealed ] words written in the book,
And out of their gloom and darkness, the eyes of the blind will see.

- Do you see with your eyes a candle that shines the light that I AM?
- Where is this candle that I might see it?
- It’s seven times before you.
I [ the Word יהוה ] am come into this world like a candle, in order that those who do not see might see, and those who are firm believers in that they are seeing might have no reason to keep on being blind.

Then some believers asked this question – Are we blind also?

– If hearing and seeing the word are not enough for you to see then is that not being blind twice? And if you admit that you do not see anything when you work up a strong belief then you would start seeing, but because you say: 'Believing, we see!', that is where your blindness increases.

Vulgate - * … because ye say: We see; therefore your sin remains.

No one has the word that I AM יהוה from a belief; neither by giving credit the truth *abides in someone.

Vulgate - * And ye have not his word abiding in you: for … ye believe not

Whoever quotes the scriptures, ( as it is presented - with very bad revised translations and with very bad corrections ), without *searching first for the truth, in them he thinks he is having eternal life in exchange for giving credit. However, they were ( originally ) written in order for them to testify about Me: the word to be known so that a person shall not experiment death.

Vulgate - * Search the scriptures because in them ye think ye have eternal life …

They that believe waste their time trying to give credit to the contents in the book, but I ( the Word ) do not receive credit from men. The only thing I have from those who believe is the precaution to beware that they have no truth in them.

Vulgate - * I receive not honor from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love …

For when the writing comes with the name that I AM יהוה then those who work up a belief do not receive the words in it. If another version comes with a man’s name then it will have the approval since it will be promising eternal life in exchange for giving credit.

Vulgate - * … and ye receive me not; if another shall come in his own name …

Can anyone verify for the truth when taking assuredness from him himself instead of the assuredness that comes from the word that I AM יהוה only?

Vulgate - * How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, …

People who know the truth do not buy the idea that the living Word ( יהוה ) would be like one that would denounce them and yet keeps silent before what (s)he sees, and consents for not making (her)himself heard. Everyone who believes already has a word that judges him: the word of immortality at the beginning of the book of Mosheh ( Moses ), for believing that he was made to experiment the death.

• About the commandment of eternal life, it is found at the beginning of Genesis ( written by Mosheh ); immortality in the sense that the Human body does not have necessarily to experiment the physical death.

• By rejecting the words of the book ( as originally written ), those who believe do sentence themselves to perdition through their beliefs, by firmly believing that death is a certainty and that they were made to die.

Vulgate - * … there is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom ye trust …

To believe or believing is accomplishing the works of Legion ( Heb. Ravãb ), the father of the beliefs, since it is not possible to deceive anyone without making believe nor is it possible for one to be deceived without him believing. The dragon was made to be a predator and specialist on camouflages made to make-believe.

Vulgate - * Ye are of your father the devil, and the works of your father ye will do. He was a killer from the beginning …

When he tells a lie he is acting according to his nature of camouflaging – by not letting one know what the truth is.

*Legion; Ravãb; is to be many, having many truths inside. However, the truth is one only. - To Believe is taking as ( if it was ) truth, however, also To Lie is taking as if it was the truth: the truth (s)he did not know. If he knew indeed then he would not need to believe.

Vulgate - * When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own …

People do not kill except for a reason. However, in Ravãb’s point of view, it is perfectly natural to kill just to destroy. Even so, those who believe have been agreeing with condemnation without a reason, through the words quoted from doors of doom that they read and perform, when judging that the non-believers are condemned.

• When someone works up a strong belief then he is at the same time carrying out the works of the demon the father of the beliefs.

• Those who believe do agree with a judgmental speech from their doctrines of faiths, through the quotation of words that they read and perform when stating that the non-believers are condemned.

( * gates of doom; the books that were made specifically for them that believe, and for whoever comes to identify himself with a condemnatory and judgmental point of view ).

But if those who do not work up a belief are condemned to no salvation,
it is *because of this: the help and salvation they look in those doors for,
they ( that believe ) will fall upon it!

( * Fragmented field found in The Thomas Gospel )

And why the believers do not believe Me: because I tell you the truth, and the knowledge of truth is not known by belief. For which person, desiring to put up a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost to be certain if he will have enough to make it complete rather than believe? For fear that if he makes a start and is not able to go on with it to the end, all who see it will be laughing at that person, And saying, This person made a start at the building, believing he would go on with it and is not able to make it complete.

Vulgate - * And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Is there any believer who is able to prove that I’m not telling the truth?
And if such a believer is not able to prove me wrong, then why he does not believe Me? It is because to believe is only proper when applied to what is demoniac or to the things that may or may not be true.

Vulgate - * Which of you convince me of sin? And if I say the truth, why ye do not believe me?

Complementary field from The Thomas Gospel ( Paraphrased ) - If those who would lead you say to you: 'Behold the heavenly kingdom is in heaven!' then the birds of heaven will get there first before you. If they say to you: 'It is in the sea!' then the fish will get there first before you. But the heavenly kingdom is within you, and it is without you having to be there first!

In The Light, paraphrased fragments of scripture is precisely the opposite of the gates of doom known as Septuagint and other things. The following fields might help some to fly away from those judgmental and condemnatory gates of doom. Stay with me a little more time on these pages which show that the reality has been mirrored, reversed to us.

א The heaven as you expected ends here. The heaven I draw is unexpected: where it glitters a separate Word that the eyes did not see, and the hands did not touch.

ב And whoever will not be born again is darkness and is not able to see the word that I AM יהוה

How can anyone be born again when he is old?
Will he reincarnate going into his mother's womb a second time?

ג A person becomes born again when escaping from a death that was certain, living beyond the time expected, and by retaining the word of immortality at the beginning of the book; For יהוה formed the Human body physically imperishable [ *without having to experiment death ].

ד The light [ life energy ] emanates of itself. In the one who becomes born again, the light is greater than time, thought, and realm.

Complementary fields from The Thomas Gospel - Let the man that is getting old not take so long to become like a little infant of seven days, so that he might ask for a place of SHADDAI--and he will live! For there are many first ones that are the last ones, and they will become the first and the last as one only!
[ Hebrew, Shaddai; breasts that nourish; breasts that give Life ]
Adam has come to be out of great power, and great richness, but he did not become worthy of the word that formed him. For, were he becoming, he would not have experimented the death.

Vulgate - * That which is born of the flesh is flesh …

הYou do not marvel when a person does not have ears to retain truth from hearing and seeing whether the word is consistent or not. And that person becomes a profitable route to the mercenary pastors. And advantages are taken from a circumstance of gloom and uncertainty by those who have a need of giving credit so that they might say that, believing, they are creditors of merit.

ו All that requires a belief being worked up is doubtful. And he that believes takes assuredness from himself; he retains no truth from seeing consistency in the word for there is no truth in him.

ז You do not see the wind but you do not have to believe the wind is blowing because the waves of it come to your ears and you hear the voice of its intensity. And the wind goes where it can freely flow; without man saying how it must blow. That’s how a first-fruit of the word יהוה is brought forth to the light.

How can these things be without him believing?

ח Being a judge in Yisrael don't you inquire to know and ascertain instead of believing? One speaks what one knows and testifies to what one has eye-witnessed, and yet, in the role of a judge, you do not accept a testimony if you have to believe instead of ascertaining.

ט If 'believing' isn’t what you do when a witness is being told trivial current things, then does the Justice that remains forever not to require much less belief if I tell you about things of highest value? No man ascends into heaven unless he has retained in him the one who descends from heaven: The word that I AM יהוה that glitters in heaven.

י And as Mosheh lifted up the serpent suspended to a bronze staff in the wilderness so that anyone who saw it lived, for the same reason a lamb was lifted up, so that everyone who saw the light should remain in the light.

ך For the world so loved the god
to the point of giving the first-born son in sacrifice
so that everyone who believed in that love
should believe also in their god.

ל On this a lamb is sent; not that the people need someone to die in their place but that they may see that the lamb's life is taken by the light that glistens My name.

מ Whoever sees the light is not lost anymore but anyone that does not see it is still lost; for he does not see that the death has no partake in it. The death does not take the lamb’s life away; it’s delivered into the hands of the light that I AM יהוה

נ You are saved because you do not have to fight; you do not try to hijack a lamb believing on whether the lamb intercedes for you or not. And this is the perdition of those that believe:

ס The light has come into the world and shines with lightning through the density of clouds, clearing up every uncertainty that in the darkness they did not comprehend but they loved the obscurity of beliefs and faiths rather than seeing the light.

ע For everyone who finds comfort from working up a belief does not search for the true words that I AM, neither comes to the light.

ף He rather takes the word from a distorted variation that was camouflaged to make-believe. For in the light there is no circumstance of gloom and uncertainty; in the light, there is no need to believe.

Complementary field from The Thomas Gospel ( Paraphrased ) - This is where you will know you see the One that has begotten you: When you look upon her who is not begotten out of woman, you will be prostrating yourself on your face!

.

Edited by goldenlightArchangel, : .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 11-24-2020 1:51 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19052
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 47 of 74 (883275)
11-25-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by ICANT
11-23-2020 9:48 PM


Re: Doctrines
ICANT writes:

ringo writes:

By their fruits ye shall know them. That's how we know that so many Christian doctrines are bogus.


What specific doctrines are you referring too?

For example, the doctrine of "the Fall" directly contradicts what God said in Genesis 3:22. Their fruits are lies.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2020 9:48 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 11-25-2020 1:39 PM ringo has responded
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 11-26-2020 2:11 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15352
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 48 of 74 (883276)
11-25-2020 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by ringo
11-25-2020 11:41 AM


Re: Doctrines
ringo writes:

For example, the doctrine of "the Fall" directly contradicts what God said in Genesis 3:22. Their fruits are lies.

Who is "they"? The authors of the book or the peddlers of the book? And who are you?

Second, who do YOU say that God is?
1) A character in a book written by "them"?
2) Or are you in fact narrating the book and expecting people to swallow what you say hook line and sinker? Because the fact remains that you too are peddling the book. And nobody is listening.
I CANT is a Pastor. You are some smart aleck frrom Canada who rejected Christianity and yet peddles your own brand of wisdom. You and jar both have fruit full of flies. Get out of ringo, demon! You have no power or authority to sway the masses in Jesus name.

There may be hope for you yet ringo if you renounce that demon.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 11-25-2020 11:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2020 2:05 PM Phat has responded
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 11-26-2020 11:24 AM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8147
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 49 of 74 (883278)
11-25-2020 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
11-25-2020 1:39 PM


Re: Doctrines
You've gone down you fundie rabbit hole again haven't you Phat?

You've been having the same discussions with these people for a dozen or more years yet you still ask the same bloody silly, fundie bubble questions and make the same stupid assertions about them.

You know these people, why are you behaving like the dumb preacher that's hearing them for the first time.

This is what happens when you spend too much time with only the loonies..


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 11-25-2020 1:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 11-25-2020 3:11 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15352
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 50 of 74 (883282)
11-25-2020 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Tangle
11-25-2020 2:05 PM


Re: Doctrines
To be fair, "These people"...yourself included...have the same old tired counter-arguments. Why do you think I wont be spending as much time here.?

You all want me to change and "think" more l;ike you...and I want you to see the light that is so obvious to me.

It takes two to Tangle.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2020 2:05 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2020 4:37 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8147
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 51 of 74 (883285)
11-25-2020 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
11-25-2020 3:11 PM


Re: Doctrines
Phat writes:

Why do you think I wont be spending as much time here.?

Because it's nice and safe for you.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 11-25-2020 3:11 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 60 days)
Posts: 6396
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 52 of 74 (883293)
11-26-2020 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by ringo
11-25-2020 11:41 AM


Re: Doctrines
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

For example, the doctrine of "the Fall" directly contradicts what God said in Genesis 3:22. Their fruits are lies.

You mentioned Genesis 3:22

quote:
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

What fruit are you referring too?

Who is the 'their' you are referring too?

What and whose doctrine of the fall are you referring too?
The text does not say anything about a fall.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 11-25-2020 11:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 11-26-2020 11:30 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19052
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 53 of 74 (883301)
11-26-2020 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
11-25-2020 1:39 PM


Re: Doctrines
Phat writes:

Who is "they"?


If you had read my post Message 11, it should be fairly clear: "so many Christian doctrines" --> so many Christians.

Phat writes:

The authors of the book or the peddlers of the book?


It should be pretty obvious that I'm not referring to the authors of the book when I say that the doctrines ignore and/or contradict the book.

Phat writes:

And who are you?


I'm a guy who learned how to read.

Phat writes:

Second, who do YOU say that God is?
1) A character in a book written by "them"?


Again, it's not about the authors of the book. It's about the people who pervert what the authors wrote.

And God is several characters in several books.

Phat writes:

2) Or are you in fact narrating the book and expecting people to swallow what you say hook line and sinker?


I couldn't care less what people swallow. I just expect them to read the book and don't expect ME to swallow the lies they tell about it.

Phat writes:

Because the fact remains that you too are peddling the book.


"Peddling" is too strong a word but yes, I am advocating the book and I'm rejecting the lies told about the book.

Phat writes:

And nobody is listening.


YOU are.

Phat writes:

I CANT is a Pastor.


ICANT is an idiot.

Phat writes:

You are some smart aleck frrom Canada...


Luckilly, that hasn't hampered my ability to read.

Phat writes:

... who rejected Christianity...


Liar. I have told you many times that I didn't "reject" Christianity. It died a natural death, like the Tooth Fairy.

Phat writes:

... and yet peddles your own brand of wisdom.


All I do is invite people to read what the Bible says.

Phat writes:

You and jar both have fruit full of flies.


Prove it.

Phat writes:

Get out of ringo, demon! You have no power or authority to sway the masses in Jesus name.

There may be hope for you yet ringo if you renounce that demon.


I have already denounced all demons. Ain't no such thing as demons. What you are possessed by is your own fear of a world with no Daddy.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 11-25-2020 1:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 11-27-2020 6:15 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19052
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 54 of 74 (883302)
11-26-2020 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ICANT
11-26-2020 2:11 AM


Re: Doctrines
ICANT writes:

What fruit are you referring too?


The lies told by Christian apologists, for example, the lie of "the Fall".

ICANT writes:

Who is the 'their' you are referring too?


If you had read my post Message 11, it should be fairly clear: "so many Christian doctrines" --> so many Christians.

ICANT writes:

What and whose doctrine of the fall are you referring too?


"So many Christians."

Phat writes:

The text does not say anything about a fall.


That's what I'm saying. If you don't subscribe to the doctrine of "the Fall", you're in the wrong discussion.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 11-26-2020 2:11 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15352
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 74 (883311)
11-27-2020 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
11-26-2020 11:24 AM


RINGOS Merry-Go-Round
What you are possessed by is your own fear of a world with no Daddy.
I can serve and volley this argument all day. What *you* are possessed by is the possibility that you do have a Daddy who is over your own ego and intellect. It sure isnt me....we both know that! And it isnt jar...though he thinks his logic, reason, and reality itself gets him closer to a GOD whom he has no idea as to the scope of or personal relationship with.

See...to you guys GOD is at best an armchair philosophical concept invented by humans and can be thrown away and examined as a discarded mythos of early humanity. You find comfort in the idea that GOD if GOD exists is at best unknowable. See? This is why need to get away from EvC and work on my own projects. Perhaps I do have an inner fear that there might be no God, but in my belief were there no God,Creation, physical matter, and the very universe itself would also not exist. God is far more than a human concept.

I have already denounced all demons. Ain't no such thing as demons.

Fair enough.
All I do is invite people to read what the Bible says.

Oh DO you now? Fair enough.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words writes:

DEMON, DEMONIAC

1. daimon NT:1142, "a demon," signified, among pagan Greeks, an inferior deity, whether good or bad. In the NT it denotes "an evil spirit." It is used in Matt 8:31, mistranslated "devils."

Some would derive the word from a root da--, meaning "to distribute." More probably it is from a similar root da--, meaning "to know," and hence means "a knowing one."

2. daimonion NT:1140, not a diminutive of daimon, No. 1, but the neuter of the adjective daimonios, pertaining to a demon, is also mistranslated "devil," "devils." In Acts 17:18, it denotes an inferior pagan deity. "Demons" are the spiritual agents acting in all idolatry. The idol itself is nothing, but every idol has a "demon" associated with it who induces idolatry, with its worship and sacrifices, 1 Cor 10:20-21; Rev 9:20; cf. Deut 32:17; Isa 13:21; 34:14; 65:3,11. They disseminate errors among men, and seek to seduce believers, 1 Tim 4:1. As seducing spirits they deceive men into the supposition that through mediums (those who have "familiar spirits," Lev 20:6,27, e. g.) they can converse with deceased human beings. Hence the destructive deception of spiritism, forbidden in Scripture, Lev 19:31; Deut 18:11; Isa 8:19. "Demons" tremble before God, James 2:19; they recognized Christ as Lord and as their future Judge, Matt 8:29; Luke 4:41. Christ cast them out of human beings by His own power. His disciples did so in His name, and by exercising faith, e. g., Matt 17:20.

Acting under Satan (cf. Rev 16:13-14), "demons" are permitted to afflict with bodily disease, Luke 13:16. Being unclean they tempt human beings with unclean thoughts, Matt 10:1; Mark 5:2; 7:25; Luke 8:27-29; Rev 16:13; 18:2, e. g. They differ in degrees of wickedness, Matt 12:45. They will instigate the rulers of the nations at the end of this age to make war against God and His Christ, Rev 16:14.

So explain to me what the Bible actually says about demons.

Liar. I have told you many times that I didn't "reject" Christianity. It died a natural death, like the Tooth Fairy.
Note how you call me (and the apologists and much of the church) the liars.

Yet what does the Bible say? Shall we go there?

Jesus, speaking to the unbelieving Jews writes:

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

You and jar call truth a lie and you twist what most believers see as truth and call it(the scripture itself) according to how YOUR Daddy sees it. But it was he who was a liar from the beginning. The snake may be but a metaphor, but it reflects the character of your teachings.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 11-26-2020 11:24 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ringo, posted 11-27-2020 11:47 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15352
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 74 (883312)
11-27-2020 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel
05-23-2019 2:42 PM


Textual Examinbation In Overall Context
goldenlight writes:

4. it means that your bible has been mixed with lies and that a large part of it became demonic or unclean (not as originally written) and needs to become cleanse again.

So how would we know what is truth and what is lies? If you or I rewrote the text would it be the same as if we reinterpreted it?

Is it possible that someone can read the text as written and yet twist or distort the meaning through their own interpretations?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 05-23-2019 2:42 PM goldenlightArchangel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 11-27-2020 11:47 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19052
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 57 of 74 (883319)
11-27-2020 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
11-27-2020 6:15 AM


Re: RINGOS Merry-Go-Round
Phat writes:

I can serve and volley this argument all day.


No you can't. You run away from it every day. Go back and answer your unanswered posts before you brag about how brilliant your answers are.

Phat writes:

What *you* are possessed by is the possibility that you do have a Daddy who is over your own ego and intellect.


See? There you go, That's no argument. It doesn't address what I said at all.

Phat writes:

You find comfort in the idea that GOD if GOD exists is at best unknowable.


Will you ever stop lying about me? I have told you many times that I would have no problem with a god if there was any hint that one existed. There is no comfort in being responsible myself.

Phat writes:

Perhaps I do have an inner fear that there might be no God....


Of course you do.

Phat writes:

So explain to me what the Bible actually says about demons.


The Bible says that there actually are demons. It also says that there are talking snakes, so we know we can't take everything it says literally.

The talking snake is an obvious literary device. If Shakespeare had written Genesis, he would have used a soliloquy instead.

As for demons, we all have "demons" but they are not entities; they are bugs in the way our minds work. We have guilt. We have addictions. We have "beliefs" that we know are false. For many people, belief in gods is a demon.

Phat writes:

Note how you call me (and the apologists and much of the church) the liars.


And I cite the evidence. Note that you didn't address that at all.

Phat writes:

Yet what does the Bible say? Shall we go there?


We already went there. See above. You can't take everything in the Bible literally.

Phat writes:

You and jar call truth a lie and you twist what most believers see as truth


Again, prove it.

Phat writes:

The snake may be but a metaphor, but it reflects the character of your teachings.


The snake told the truth.

So your attempted insult is just shooting yourself in the foot.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 11-27-2020 6:15 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 42 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 58 of 74 (883322)
11-27-2020 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
11-27-2020 6:57 AM


IN THE LIGHT there is no gloomy, there is no need to believe
.

There never was an answer without seeing, without listening . . the truth (the highest; I am that I am; which means I am not to be defined; I AM WHAT I WILL BE AND WHAT I COME TO BE);

knowledge of the truth can not be retained by believing or taking as (if it was) true.

. . . . .

evidence 1. "you shall not offer your firstborn to die in a sacrificial death;

nor will you give your consent to said offer".

But if I told you not to offer your firstborn to be sacrificed, would it be fair (or righteousness) if I do the same thing that I told you not to do and then tell you to consent to it?

( Y\N ? )

. . . . .

There is no twist nor distortion because it is not possible that the correct answer will be something other than yes or no.

. . . . .

Given the right to choice and free will it was allowed by Alta (Aleph Tav), the highest, that access to the dark world should exist for anyone who chooses what is evil, through the most demonic doctrine, which speaks “every sinner belongs to the devil”, a pessimistic valuation that places you lower than the light; and it is deeming everyone sinner of the kind pertaining to the devil.

• Redemtione says there is no mercy without transference of your debts by acceptance that a price was paid for you because sinners belong to the devil and must be bought back from him, but redemption is a type of blackmailing saying “you cease to belonging to the devil if you accept or consent to a payment of price with royal innocent blood or sacrificial death".

• Established in the World in the IV century through the CODEX VATICANUS, published in Greek by Eusebius, Latin variation for Belzebu (one of Legion’s false names), the agreement of redemption defines everyone as sinners and pertaining to the devil in the sense that one`s debts must be transferred and cannot be simply forgiven.

• Another evidence of Legion`s collaboration in the writings of the bible is redemption being the likeness of ancient dragon stories where someone would have to be sacrificed, or delivered to die as an offer or payment to the dragon so that others and their village may be saved or not destroyed.

• That the reason why access to the dark world and the adversary were allowed to exist is a matter of justice (our right to choice and free will) is evident otherwise there would not be an election.

. . . . .

The truth is one, the same that was heard: I WILL HAVE MERCY AND COMPASSION ON WHOMEVER I WILL HAVE MERCY AND COMPASSION, without the need for punishment, transference of debt, or someone paying the price for people to whoever it is. It is not the devil they should fear. It is not the devil they should make peace to but the light of My love’s candle, as it is said: “before the day was I am; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?” Whether sinners or not, people do not belong to the devil but to Alta Gyahaveh, the highest, to whom the World belongs.

.

Edited by goldenlightArchangel, : .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 11-27-2020 6:57 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 42 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 59 of 74 (883330)
11-28-2020 7:54 PM


What religions and dogs have in common . . they are told what to do by the man
.

The following is about things that are not taught by the man. You won`t find it in libraries or bookstores.

If you ever heard a living word telling you See for yourself, that is because you must not be taught by the man.

The religions treat you like a dog because a dog is told what to do by the man. Unlike the religions, the living word does not treat you like a dog nor places you lower than the light.

See how much you have won for yourself. Appreciate your victories in the first place. But if you ask yourself, have you really known the one to whom the world belongs?

The only book that tells you the nature of the highest one (whom the religions falsely love) has been cast away just for saying the truth, that your life is miserable and it will be miserable until you become like the one to whom the world belongs, until you share the same point of view that all doctrines taught by the man in matters of the spirit are like open doors to hell and perdition.

The book named apocryphal (Tomah Gospel), even with the f. false names god, lord and the false\substitute name jesus, imposed upon it by the very bad Greek\Roman translations, has been cast out of the row for telling you the truth, that you came to this world with nothing and you will leave it with nothing at all if you will not be willing to know the nature of the one who has made you.

But the reason why religions and believers do not like it is that their nature is to serve and be slaves like chained to a compromise called redemption (the most demonic doctrine ever), that places you lower than the light rather than belonging or being a first-fruit of light.

That is why they keep on bringing up false and common names like god or elohiym, which is generic and does not mean holiness nor eternity, and only proves the said love is vanity and falseness.

Have a dog rather than religion. Because dogs` love is true.

A love that is happy with false\substitute names is not true, it is not a tribute nor pay homage to the truth. Their sweet flattering words are nothing and mean nothing at all.

.

Edited by goldenlightArchangel, : .

Edited by goldenlightArchangel, : .

Edited by goldenlightArchangel, : .

Edited by goldenlightArchangel, : .


Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 11-30-2020 11:10 AM goldenlightArchangel has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1836
Joined: 12-22-2015


(1)
Message 60 of 74 (883342)
11-30-2020 3:46 AM


Is the thread author a supporter of the original 382 Vulgate?
I have gotten confused.

The Vulgate was a Latin text, largely based on the Hebrew Bible, and, among European Christians, the translator was almost idiosyncratic in his strong preference for the Hebrew Old Testament verses the Septuagint. The Vulgate Old Testament was done entirely by Jerome, and it was finished in the early 5th century. Earlier Vulgate translations were from the Greek Septuagint, and Jerome was one of many translators.

So, from 382 to roughly 405, the Latin Vulgate was containing an Old Testament that came from Greek manuscripts. After 405, it was from the Hebrew text.

(Jerome hated the Apocrypha, but that is another story)

Now the New Testament:

It was also the first text to include the exact same 27 books the make up the "New Testament" that has existed since.

Despite, Jerome's personal preference, the Gospel of Matthew was from the Greek version. Every text is from the Greek.

I am unclear about the thread author's view on any of these developments. From the first to the last.


  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021