Charismatic Chaos

As I said before, the reality of what ends up being true versus what is exposed as conman fraud is far from simply being defined in light of logic, reason, and reality. We live in a world where rationality is being suspended. take the creation of New Money Along with the specter of Climate Change, New Money will lead to the breakdown of society as we know it. The Bill will come due and the Climate will change and the nutters will continue to distort the truth and so will the skeptics, atheists, and rationalists. The jury is still out regarding the Rapture, but I can just about bet you that within the next 30 years, in addition to more powerful hurricanes, bankrupt economies, bills long overdue getting foreclosed upon, and aging nuclear stockpiles in the hands of populist leaders, humanity will face its greatest challenge.And I expect at least one electromagnetic pulse event that will wipe out our electrical grid and fry all of our cellphones...itself an event of apocalyptic potential to Millenials. You and i clearly disagree on the degree of God's involvement, but for believers, the god whom we believe is in communion with us in our minds will play a BIG role. Pick your side now, jar.

I understand that. But surely there is a middle ground between God as living and active bestower of favor and an unknown (and unknowable) afterlife judge. Hypothetically, what would you do if reality proved that ultimately God was alive through the Holy Spirit, only a few stumbled upon this truth (either by accident or design) and the believers had a handicap of ignorance while the truly smart ones didn't allow themselves to believe in such a God?In other words, what if its not simply what we *do* but on how we treat each other and find a communion to relate to such a God? Or would you simply laugh in His face? Would we be judged on how we treated the planet and tried to preserve life for others? Would we be judged on how we reacted to money? Would we be judged based on how we responded to God as we understood Him?

So, in essence, you have confirmed your belief. Correct me if I misrepresent it.
Essentially, you believe that nobody can ever know God.
Your idea of belief centers on what you believe happens after you die.
You believe that God is unknowable.
All Christians who do not acknowledge your "obvious" logic are duped by conmen.
In reality, they are fooling themselves.Got it. No wonder we always disagree. Believers have sufficient evidence based on experience.
Though we acknowledge "conmen" in organized religion, we in no way agree with you that it is so widespread as to include everyone that believes God is alive through Christ. The fact is that there will never be evidence in the scientific sense.Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

No, we interpreted our experience based on what we felt while experiencing it. You can easily teach a parishioner to jump up and down and act excited, but you cannot give them the will to do it. That is up to how they feel about the experience. What if He sought us out? After all, there is really only one of him. It's not like we are in a Hollywood audition where a roomful of Gods awaits approval. We experienced God. Of course, we know that He is more than we have been taught. Our intuition and shared experience, coupled with positive testimonies the world over convince us that God is good rather than schizophrenic and evil as you suggest scripture itself supports. Yet you cant label 2 billion Christians, or perhaps 500,000 of them who agree that Jesus is alive today, as a cult. I'd like to hear others. I will then tell you whether I would consider them acceptable. We choose our beliefs and become the decisions that we make.Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Neither truth nor reality is represented by anyone other than those involved.

Oh so its *my* version now, is it? Based on my experience and on my own studies and conclusions, my explanation is what I will go with. No need to change horses in the middle of a stream. Unlikely but hypothetically possible. Your side rejects them all en masse including my version, and my side rejects all but Jesus admittedly possible. More study is needed in this area. For now, aliens are simply unevidenced and unexplained. I consider many of such sightings demonic, but that is my own subjective conclusion. entirely possible on an individual level. So far they have not come for me. If I ever suddenly disappear from EvC Forum, I will likely be in a hospital somewhere or a morgue. Always possible. We each have our pet conclusion. In my mind, you and jar both suppressed belief because you were taught to only have evidence of supportable belief. Many others simply downed the kool-aid. Likely upwards of 5 million-plus...Edited by Thugpreacha, : further 'splainin

Well, to be honest, I fired off a reply without thinking. Truth or lies? Have I again misrepresented the great state of texas? Those Socratic masters taught you to think,(as did Joe Woods) which you encourage me to do...but one reason I stick to my guns on my basic belief is because of my all-too-real experiences and several confirmation biased events. Granted I prefer fantasy over reality, but I have a sneaky suspicion that this whole Armageddon, last days, the war of ideology stuff could pan out to be basically true. And again, I prefer a supernatural answer rather than a sobering and depressing answer such as "the bill will get paid even if many Americans suffer" and "The world will find us useful as gardeners, chauffers, and cooks".

And one further note: The Bill basically can't get paid without upending the entire financial system. Look at the evidence and crunch the numbers.

Oh yes, it is, or it will be when your money becomes as inflated and worthless as everyone else. You too will have to suffer a bit, but you have prepared better than most. Yes, it looks as if though there will be a lot of pain and suffering in the future. And I don't mean to sound all gloom and doom, as Tangle thinks all religious nutters are. I'm just realizing that the era in which I grew up, 1960-1990, was one of the most stable and prosperous eras in human history. (for a white male living in the United States.) And my family was never classified as wealthy. I can identify with the sociological forces that led to Populism and the rise of Trump.Though I don't really like or respect Trump, my Father would have likely loved him. When you couple these people--the Populists--with the religious Right, an earlier group founded on merging Biblical Christianity with Partisan Politics, you begin to see why Faith likes and respects Trump so much. It is about preserving the suburban fantasy of making America Great Again, as it was in the times in which I grew up. Personally, I am torn between preserving the fantasy and hoping that if reality must change, God owes it to us to help us accept the change knowing that He has the wheel. A deep and uneasy awareness tells me that I may be wrong on both counts.We have discussed this stuff too many times to count here at EvC. I enjoy discussing it only because I hope that I can change the minds of those who have thrown my God away. It would be nice if He came back in my life(time) and rewarded me with a safe and stable eternity. I really don't want to be supportive of white privilege, but I also don't want to be cast aside and marginalized and have to suffer the way that many ethnic people from many other nations and kingdoms have had to suffer for the past 500 years.But I take your arguments thoughtfully if not agreeably.Why should God favor me and my contemporaries who lived during the aberration? I reason that he should because He can and because the sins of our fathers were and are not our fault. You have argued that this attitude proves that I create the God I want, but I honestly believe that I have met God and that I am well aware that there is no way that He is exactly as I would think Him to be or as my society defined him as. What scares me is how different He may end up being.Of course, I don't believe as you do that He is complete. (Having good and evil attributes) and I don't care what scriptures you run past me regarding that. I believe in the ultimate good and ultimate justice. Honestly though, what scares me is that my own dogma which you usually laugh at shows me that there is a possibility that my nation will be judged and has heaped up and is heaping up a multitude of sins against humanity.Faith will argue that America has also done a lot of good in the world and that it is the evil leftists who push the other philosophy. As of now, while I agree that there are evil people in the world, I am unconvinced that they are any more Left than Right. They come in all shapes and sizes. Comments?Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Edited by Thugpreacha, : fixing a few glitches

Not at all. In fact, I think that Donald should have been impeached or at the very least fully exposed. The Republicans disagreed and sought to move on. I saw that coming for a few weeks now. As I have said before (and try to represent) I am more of a moderate.In light of this topic, "Charismatic Chaos" I acknowledge the sociological tension between religion and secular goals.As for the economy, the reason that I focus on it so much is because if it does tank, it will bring out the worst--and the best of human nature, the survival of the fittest, and the so-called empathy that so many of us believe to be a necessary human trait.And at that point it won't do any good to blame anyone. In order to survive and come out of such an event, our division and bickering as a nation will have to cease or we will find ourselves drowning while having our hands around the neck of our adversaries and ideological opposites.

Hard to tell what will happen with Gold. Though a counter-cyclical investment for hard times, nobody would want to be the guy holding a lot of gold when guns are clearly outnumbering it bar for bar.Now...concerning "other gods(while we are on the topic of gold) See, this is why we will never agree. A God is "likely" only if that god is useful to you. Since you rely on "evidence" rather than need, then, of course, all of the gods are equally likely for you. Indeed it does. In bringing up a Economic Collapse I focus on such an event because it confronts my fears, validates the likelihood of an end-times scenario, and challenges all of humanity to love rather than hate. This will be no easy task and the love of many will grow cold, be they secular humanists or be they religious. If such a scenario occurred, there would be mass hysteria. As Tangle might say, the nutters will come out of the woodwork. IOf course, the day Trump got elected many of them already emerged. And you became a born again evidentialist...I get the picture. Apply your evidence to Climate Change+Economic Collapse Likelihood+Human Nature. What do you see in the next 100 years?

Perhaps I am just angry at no longer being favored.

What do you want me to do? Roll over and simply allow the entire lane of traffic to pass me by as I politely let them play catchup?Look, I'm well aware that my ancestors were very callous and exploitive of indigenous cultures. I am also aware that the Populists represent one of the attempts to maintain "White Privilege" in the interests of "Making America Great Again."I am aware that China is poised to shoot past the US Economy and that a global transfer of wealth will likely happen. The 1% are colorblind...all they see is green, and they will ride the wave up with the other emerging cultures.The majority of the aging middle-class population will slowly lose their status, money, and power. Critics say that they enjoyed an artificial construct for many decades and even centuries. But my question still stands. As an aging white male who only wants to retire in some degree of comfort, is it too much to ask that the traffic that is passing me give me a break and let me in line too?

Some may say that I am dragging my own thread off topic, but I honestly believe that this issue is part of Charismatic Chaos. And Faith, I am going to be critical on an equal opportunity basis, as you claim the current administration is.
I have as many demons as anybody, but I try and recognize them before they take over my mind completely. Thus the following observations are entirely my own. Even if true, the identity movement does have to do with privilege and preserving an artificial construct. We just use different words. Instead of saying to make White People "great again" (artificially constructed privileged again) we substitute the term "America." Even if you can make a case that you need to ask yourself why Trump Populists have such strong feelings regarding Obama, Leftism, and Nationalism.And before you go scolding me about how I have been corrupted, remember that I examine all sides of every issue even though I sometimes rant for favoritism as you also do.

I read those two internet pages you sent me. If you recall, I listened to the entire audiobook titled White Fragility: The other Side Of Racism, and even though I sometimes rant about no longer being favored, I am aware that it is inevitable. Perhaps it is God's way of preparing me for being worthy of inclusion into His Kingdom. You know that I have a long way to go and there are some attitudes that I even resist. I am scared of losing my status and of having to compete at age 60+ as the future of social security is so uncertain.Of course, some people even argue that Christianity itself has been a tool of White Privilege. I know this much. Jesus was most definitely not white. And it is my hope and prayer that the indigenous cultures will treat my family much better than my ancestors treated them. I need to realize that giving up power is not something I should take personally. It is a corrective action culturally. If this were simply fake news or a plot of "the Left" there would not be so much anger out there directed against it. In fact, I think that demonizing "The Left" is, in essence, a sublimated act of demonizing those of other races and cultures who dare to knock "us" off of our throne. This is the whole reason that Populism raised its head globally.