Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,929 Year: 4,186/9,624 Month: 1,057/974 Week: 16/368 Day: 16/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 205 of 222 (710474)
11-05-2013 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
11-04-2013 7:51 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
but the Biblical evidence IS extraordinary, quite equal to its claims. Sorry but that's a fact, and it's on YOU to recognize it
Can we get an idea of what this evidence, extraordinary or otherwise, actually might be?
Additionally, the way things work from a burden of proof standpoint, is that the individual making the claim must provide adequate information regarding the evidence they are putting forth. If one looks at how things operate in a legal situation, the prosecutor has the burden of proof to leverage evidence to verify their claim of guilt. It is not up to the jury to simply accept it; the jury takes the skeptical stance and the prosecutor must convince them. I don't think too many prosecutors would get far in their profession if they simply assumed the jury absolutely must accept their stance as 'fact' without providing a convincing argument as well.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 11-04-2013 7:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 208 of 222 (710477)
11-05-2013 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Faith
11-05-2013 3:39 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
But you have USUAL evidence too, of course, which you can find in the history of Christianity. There's no need of my trying to review it all, I've learned the hard way at EvC that it's futile
I cannot comment on previous threads, but you did indicate within this thread that the evidence existed. Posters, including myself, then asked for examples. As Ringo indicated, you can refrain from the extraordinary claims if you wish and focus merely on the standard claims.
If you feel it is futile to present this evidence, then that is your prerogative. But if that is the case, why venture comments on the existence of evidence that you refuse to present?
So I am asking, in sincerity, what is this 'evidence' you are positing that verifies the veracity of specific biblical accounts?

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 3:39 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2013 4:40 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 209 of 222 (710479)
11-05-2013 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
11-05-2013 3:43 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
The Bible is predominantly history designed to demonstrate the existence and nature of God, whereas the writings of other religions are generally predominantly instruction based on an assumption of the reality of God
Why is the Koran not considered as part of the historicity to demonstrate the existence of god? Or the Torah?
Additionally, Buddhist philosophy makes no mention of a personal god, which would seem to indicate it is not providing instruction on the assumption of the reality of god.
Also, various forms of Hinduism as well as older religions such as Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Mayan or Norse based views posited the notion of more than one god. I am curious how they are providing instruction on the reality of a singular god when their basic tenets denote multiple deities.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 3:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 4:25 PM Diomedes has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 213 of 222 (710483)
11-05-2013 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
11-05-2013 4:25 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
The Koran is predominantly instruction, just about no history, designed to teach Muslims what to believe and do, not designed to prove anything about God's existence
That is actually not correct. The Koran is actually very historical in that it is a first hand account by the prophet Mohammed himself.
The Torah is of course part of the Bible I'm talking about, predominantly history designed to teach of the existence and nature of God
Fair enough.
Buddhism teaches practices designed to escape the sufferings of the world. In a sense it's not even a religion
I would disagree. Buddhism has a code of ethics, but it also has a strong spiritual core that puts forth notions of reincarnation, and the eternality of the living spirit. Which would put it squarely in the religion camp.
The religions of multiple gods also don't give history. They don't have any
This is also not correct. Multiple texts which invoke pagan gods such as Athena, Zeus also provide historical accounts. For example, the Homeric writings regarding the Trojan War are now deemed historical.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 4:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:17 PM Diomedes has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 221 of 222 (710518)
11-06-2013 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Faith
11-05-2013 6:17 PM


Re: Evidence leads to faith
"First hand account" by Mohammed? Mohammed got his stuff from an entity he called the Angel Gabriel. Oh, along with passages he plagiarized and distorted from the Bible, some pretty laughable stuff there as he confuses characters from both Testaments. There is no "first hand" anything to it. And read it: it's just about nothing but commands and instructions. Except the plagiarized stuff and some other brief parts of it.
And how is this different from copious references in the bible of specific individuals receiving their 'instructions' from angels, burning bushes, and so forth?
Additionally, of course he plagiarized. The Koran is a derivative of the original Torah. Which, by the way, the Bible plagiarized.
Fine, call Buddhism a religion then but only the folk versions involve worship of a deity, which is the Buddha himself
Belief in a deity is not a prerequisite of a religion.
And are gods and goddesses considered to be a HISTORICAL part of the Trojan war?
From the standpoint of the Homeric writings, yes. Various heroes in the Trojan war were either demigods or influenced by gods. Achilles was the son of a goddess. As was Ajax. And my own moniker (Diomedes) is based off of a hero in the war that was possessed by the spirit of Athena.
But all this merely distracts from the point. The ONLY religious text that is predominantly history DESIGNED TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXISTENCE AND NATURE OF GOD (which the writings of Homer are not) is the Bible.
Evidence to counter your initial claim is not a distraction. It is evidence.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 11-05-2013 6:17 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024