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Author Topic:   I have doubt in my religion
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3918 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 53 (190195)
03-05-2005 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by my_allegory
03-04-2005 8:38 AM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
wise choice. i don't know why all these people seemed to think that your best answer was to simply stop believing what you believe and to pick up some new garment with just as many holes. you need to evolve your thought. do not fear questions, do not simply abandon the problem. questions are good. explore them, seek answers. you might be surprised with what you find.
i don't know much about lds but i'm a good little presbyterian and we are an old and thinking church. i am myself in the midst of a sort of crisis. but i think you will soon discover that generally crises of faith are merely when your dictionary starts to fail you. your god has not changed nor has your relationship with him... it is merely man's interpretations which you have been taught which are failing you. explore the text on your own time and, while considering that which you are told in church or group bible studies, consider your own mind and your own interpretations as just as valid and informed.
i wish you providence and peace on your journey. there is only one who can give it to you. and it's not your pastor or the author of your science book. find him and don't let go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by my_allegory, posted 03-04-2005 8:38 AM my_allegory has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 53 (190245)
03-05-2005 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


i am an inactive member of jesus christ of latter- day saints.my faith in the church is dying.is there anyone who can testify much about the church? cause i am not at ease talking with the members in our stake.they all seem so plastic and hypocrite.or maybe im just being too critical.
Hi, My_allegory. Welcome! I am a 60 year Biblical fundamentalist, since age 10. I have a BOM, some other books on Mormonism and have dialoged with numerous LDS folks over the decades. When LDS folks come to my door, I don't turn them away. I engage them in dialog and sometimes debate. There are two basic propositions I make to my my Mormon friends:
My Mormon friend, I will become a Mormon if:
1. You can produce from the BOM one bonafide significant prophecy, verified by history, not already given in the Bible.
2. Since you contend that the BOM is a necessary addition to the Bible, I will become a Mormon if you can produce one thing, anything, in the BOM that will benefit me in this life or the life to come that is not already given in the Bible.
So far, I've not needed Mormonism to benefit my life either here or in the hereafter. The Bible which predates the BOM by nearly 18 centuries, has it all.
Problem 1: Approximately a quarter to a third of the BOM appears to be plagarized from the Bible. I was, some years ago, as a parent, visiting the dorms at West Point. My son's room mate was a devout Mormon. He was out of the room during our visit but his BOM was on the desk. I picked it up and broused through it. I noticed a lot of texts he had colored in red for reference. The interesting thing I noticed about this was that the reddened in texts were familiar to me, a Biblical devout, indicative of plagarism by Joseph Smith, not necessarily to the letter, but to contextual messages of the Bible. The 2nd interesting thing about this is that to my son's Mormon devout, it was the Biblical stuff in the BOM that he considered of value to him for his life.
I've said all the above to say this, my friend. Go with God via the Bible. Check out the fulfilled prophecies in it so as to determine it's supernatural nature so as to increase your confidence in it. Get also into the book of John in the NT and the book of Romans to find enlightment and salvation. You will hereby begin, I say 'begin,' to find truth, imo, and begin to understand where we came from, why we're here and what the future will bring. Jehovah, god of the Bible said, "You shall seek me and find me when you shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-05-2005 19:41 AM

In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 18 of 53 (190268)
03-05-2005 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by my_allegory
03-04-2005 8:38 AM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
everyone has their own path, and no one can lead you on any path but theirs. they can tell you where they have been and where they think they are going, but that doesn't necessarily help you.
one can wail and gnash their teeth, or one can enjoy the views from the path. it is all perspective.
enjoy.
{added by edit} and welcome to the fray.
This message has been edited by RAZD, 03-05-2005 21:44 AM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by my_allegory, posted 03-04-2005 8:38 AM my_allegory has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 03-05-2005 10:40 PM RAZD has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 53 (190271)
03-05-2005 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
03-05-2005 9:43 PM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
everyone has their own path, and no one can lead you on any path but theirs. they can tell you where they have been and where they think they are going, but that doesn't necessarily help you.
Often a begger is helped by another beggar sharing where he found bread.

In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. buzsaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by RAZD, posted 03-05-2005 9:43 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 03-06-2005 11:25 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 22 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-06-2005 12:21 PM Buzsaw has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 20 of 53 (190328)
03-06-2005 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
03-05-2005 10:40 PM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
people can share portions of the path but the specific routes and experiences taken will not be the same. each foot lands in a different place, each eye looks to a different horizon.
I would say we are lucky if we can share 80% of an experience.
enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 03-05-2005 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6863 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 21 of 53 (190332)
03-06-2005 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Keep your eyes on Christ and you will avoid the lemming effect.

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6863 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 22 of 53 (190333)
03-06-2005 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
03-05-2005 10:40 PM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
They can share bread but not trade paths.

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 03-05-2005 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Monk
Member (Idle past 3914 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 23 of 53 (190760)
03-09-2005 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by my_allegory
03-04-2005 8:38 AM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
my_allegory writes:
i think i will not enter into any kind of religion as of now.
For someone who is obviously in anguish over what to do, I believe that you have made a wise decision to postpone a particular religous affiliation. I don't know much at all about LDS, my only contact has been through a few members and they were nice folks, very cordial. On the other hand, we didn't get very deep into their theology.
Just remember, you don't need to be a member of any organized religion to have a fulfilling relationship with God. Seek him with a sincere heart, when you are alone, during the quiet times of life, and you will find him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by my_allegory, posted 03-04-2005 8:38 AM my_allegory has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 03-10-2005 9:19 PM Monk has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 53 (191003)
03-10-2005 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Monk
03-09-2005 10:33 AM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
it strikes me that the anguish is more over the church than the religion ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Monk, posted 03-09-2005 10:33 AM Monk has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by arachnophilia, posted 03-11-2005 3:48 AM RAZD has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1334 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 25 of 53 (191024)
03-11-2005 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by RAZD
03-10-2005 9:19 PM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
"god, please save me from your followers"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 03-10-2005 9:19 PM RAZD has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 53 (191042)
03-11-2005 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by my_allegory
03-04-2005 8:38 AM


Re: Read, talk, and learn
Hi, allegory! I think that you are making a wise decision. In my experience, I never found God...He found me! I disagree that truth is a journey or a quest that one must undertake. I believe that being open to the truth is all that is necessary...no matter how logical or illogical the circumstances appear to be. Maybe God wants you to be happy and content without religion....at least for now. I am confidant that you will be ok. Hang around and discuss stuff with us if you want! We all represent many different viewpoints, methods of logic(or the lack thereof) and beliefs, yet we all respect each other enough to listen to each other here at EvC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by my_allegory, posted 03-04-2005 8:38 AM my_allegory has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3918 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 27 of 53 (207168)
05-11-2005 3:58 PM


hey. just wondering how it's going.

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 28 of 53 (207176)
05-11-2005 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


I'm mostly with Buzsaw's view Message 17. I have talked with Mormons too and read the BOM and realized how the only thing Christian about it is what it takes from the Bible. Maybe it would help focus you if you read up on the history of Mormonism and its differences from Christianity -- somebody suggested an ex-Mormon website. That's a place to start I'd say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by arachnophilia, posted 05-12-2005 2:55 AM Faith has replied

Philip
Member (Idle past 4713 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 29 of 53 (207228)
05-11-2005 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by my_allegory
02-09-2005 1:18 PM


Operative Mechanism of Faith
Faith in Redemptive ID (a.k.a., Christ) is Faith indeed. Churches are a mere byproduct, often clouded by legalistic traditions of stubborn sinners (you and I).
Such Faith is difficult for me at times but it is the only operative mechanism of redemption, holiness, love, joy, peace, etc. Martin Luther's commentary on Galatians should heal your wounded conscience fast.
But if your religious faith is tied into something other than Christ's entering into death for our sins, being buried, and raising to become your God in the Heavenly places, then you've got a counterfeit anyway.
The N.T. scriptures everywhere direct faith in this Gospel of grace alone. Also, (your) faith first and foremost refutes evolutionism (Hebrews 11:3)
Thus, ALL you theistic-evos (out there) don't have this faith. You are very anti-Christ while being pro-Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by my_allegory, posted 02-09-2005 1:18 PM my_allegory has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 05-11-2005 7:27 PM Philip has not replied
 Message 32 by macaroniandcheese, posted 05-11-2005 8:49 PM Philip has not replied
 Message 34 by zephyr, posted 05-11-2005 9:23 PM Philip has not replied
 Message 35 by arachnophilia, posted 05-12-2005 2:51 AM Philip has not replied
 Message 38 by Brian, posted 05-12-2005 8:24 AM Philip has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 53 (207231)
05-11-2005 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Philip
05-11-2005 7:01 PM


Re: Operative Mechanism of Faith
THAT's telling it like it is!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Philip, posted 05-11-2005 7:01 PM Philip has not replied

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