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Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The bible and homosexuality: Round 3 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Yaro Member (Idle past 6526 days) Posts: 1797 Joined: |
It was addressed to JF, but I think it's a relevant question for everyone.
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Morte Member (Idle past 6132 days) Posts: 140 From: Texas Joined: |
You said in Message 137:
quote: But you also say...
quote: So why is this? If you don't condone legislating morality, how can you justify legislation banning gay marriage based on a religious viewpoint? It would be one thing if the government was trying to force all churches to conduct such marriages - but no one's asking for that. We're just asking that they be granted equality from the eyes of the state.
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svonnah_la_fay Inactive Member |
Before I launch my spiel, I noted in someone's last post that they said heterosexuals engage in anal sex as well. That may be true, but they aren't supposed to, and it doesn't make it any more right.
Here's what I really want to say: Okay, fine everyone...maybe it cannot be proven SUFFICIENTLY (sub capitals for italics) the reasons why God and his church are against homosexuality, but one would expect the physical and mental repulsion, even from those at a very young age first introduced to the topic, would be hint enough. Recently I discovered a very interesting Christian website explaining what to do when facing a situation not covered by the Bible. And the answer was, to put it in cliche: Follow your heart. The author described the conscience (and gave more Bible verses than I thought there were in that book concerning the conscience) as being the moral 'compass' with which to lead you in the correct decision. Granted, and I know you'll bring this up, there are homosexuals who feel it is right for them to be that way... So you all oposing my views may be right as well...but I may be right also...it just depends on your opinion and what you choose to beleive. But in the end, only one of us is going to be right. If it's you, no harm done. If it's me...
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
If your problem is with anal sex, are homosexuals who don't practice anal sex just fine? What about lesbians (who are not even mentioned in the bible)?
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Nonsense. Do you find racism repugnant? Most people claim to, and yet our society has been brutally racist and THOSE people did not find it repugnant at all, but rational and moral. Most very small children react negatively even to hetero sex; but then, given we spend a lot of time enforcing cleanliness, and the inherent foulness of other peoples bodily fluids, its not necessarily that surprising. (as a child I found it quite odd that adults wouldn't share a spoon but would happily try to suck each others tongues out) The point being: an alleged "natural" reaction by children almost certainly is not. It is extremely difficult to isolate social influences even on children who cannot yet talk. We simply do not know if this is a childs "authentic" reaction or if the child is producing the output they have been trained to produce.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I know this is ancient, but...
quote: If they give mixed race couples the right to marry that effects everyone. People that believe it to be wrong won't get a choice anymore. They will HAVE to live with it no matter what. So you say it's okay as long as the mixed race couples get treated fairly even though others are being treated unfairly in there view of things. When it is all said and done someone is going to be treated unfairly in there view. If the marriages are legalized throughout then they will have to change the textbooks to show the new families even though they make up 2-4% of the population. Talk about MINORITY RULE. If they took a vote of the entire country I bet over 75 percent of the country would be against it. This is forcing views onto people. At least the "christians" ask you to consider what they have said, not YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THIS. Some may do that, but not many. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-10-2004 09:47 AM
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GoodIntentions  Inactive Member |
Coincidently, one of my English professors said the same thing a while back when we were discussing the issue of gay marriage. He also said that it's not marriage that Christian fundamentalists have been known to go after. They pretty much said the same thing when some people wanted to end slavery, that the majority didn't think blacks were really human beings and that giving them rights would force the minority view onto the majority.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Mr.Jack writes: Does not this verse mention lesbianism?
What about lesbians (who are not even mentioned in the bible)? NIV writes: To be fair, however, allow me to quote a comment by another friend of mine: Rom 1:24-27= Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Isn’t it strange why of all the so-called sins, homosexuality is the one sin that does not befall us all? Look at all the other sins: Who among us hasn’t lusted, envied or hated? Every single sin by itself would be enough to stop us from acting when Jesus said ``let he who has not sinned cast the first stone``. Every single sin that is, except homosexuality. If homosexuality was the only sin in the world then I would not be a sinner. I could cast the first and last stones on sinners without a shred of doubt. I was never ever even once tempted by my co-worker’s hairy legs But if we are supposed to be all sinners, why don’t we have any homosexual impulses like those we have of other sins? How can something be a sin if you cannot be tempted by it? I think I have found the reason why you theists want to continue thinking of homosexuality as a sin. Why it is the only law of the book of Leviticus that you insist on keeping. It makes you feel good to have a sin you can actually throw stones at. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 11-10-2004 01:59 PM
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6052 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
I noted in someone's last post that they said heterosexuals engage in anal sex as well. That may be true, but they aren't supposed to, and it doesn't make it any more right. I was the one who made that comment. Does it state in the Bible that anal sex, (or any specific sex act for that matter), is wrong? You mentioned earlier "immoral sex acts". Could you list which sex acts are "moral", and why?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Why am I reminded of when the catholic church published these books telling people of moral and immoral sex positions? These were written by people that were supposed to not know anything about sex.
Hate world. Revenge soon!
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6052 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
Not to mention that you before you can married you need to seek marriage counseling from someone who has taken a vow of celibacy.
(By the way, I'm not trying to derail your topic. So many out there are convinced that specific sex acts are immoral I was wondering if there was any possible Biblical basis...)
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phatboy writes:
quote: You said this:
quote: In other words, you can "be" gay, you just can't actually be gay. You can have all the feelings you want and that isn't wrong, but if you try to do anything that actually expresses your sexuality and makes you feel connected to another human being emotionally and spiritually through a physical act, then you're just asking for too much.
quote: Yes, you are. You are saying straight people get to ritualize and consecrate their relationships but gay people need to get over that silly notion of bonding with another person.
quote: Prove it. Tell us how you've written to your church about how marriage is a horrible thing and should be abolished. Double standard, Phatboy. If straight people get to do it and it is important for them and should be celebrated and consecrated, then it necessarily goes the same for gay people or you've got a double standard.
quote: Why do you hate gay people so? You don't do this to straight people.
quote: Because you hate. People who didn't hate wouldn't treat gay people differently and you do. Prove me wrong. Tell me about this "scrutinization" of straight people you are inflicting upon gays. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
PecosGeorge writes:
quote: I hope, then, that you are mute. You see, your vocal chords were "invented" to keep objects out of your lungs. Your ability to cough is because you can close off your vocal chords, build up pressure, and then expel the air violently. They were not "invented" to allow you to speak. If you truly believe that we should only use things for what they were "invented" for, then you would take a vow of silence right here and now and not engage in that evil abomination of speech. And you'd never use your penis for sex, either, because it's primary purpose is as the exit from the bladder during urination. And I seriously hope you never suffer extreme nausea, because they'll deliver the compazine to keep the dry heaves at bay rectally...which is an exit, not an entry, right? How strange it is that you seem to have no problem with a bodily organ serving double-duty except when it comes to things that trigger your squick factor. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phatboy responds to me:
quote:quote: You misunderstand. I'm not talking about some generic "church leader." I'm talking about Bishop Robinson, personally. Are you seriously claiming that he, specifically, who has given his life to the church, and his husband do not love god with all of their heart, soul, mind, and strength? You seem to have set up an unwinnable situation. You claim that there are no gay couples who love god with all of their heart, soul, mind, and strength and then when you are shown a couple who fits your criteria to a T, you claim that they don't really do so with no other justification than your original assertion that gay people can't love god. Simple question: Does Bishop Robinson love god with all of his heart, soul, mind, and strength? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
Does not this verse mention lesbianism? Perhaps, it's a matter of interpretation.
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