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Author Topic:   The bible and homosexuality: Round 3
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 31 of 306 (121217)
07-02-2004 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by almeyda
06-23-2004 11:39 PM


Marked for extermination
were the Canaanite nations (about 8) for certain acts of depravity including homosexuality, burning children to their idols (sodomy, bestiality, loathsome vices, etal), when the earth itself begins to vomit for the foulness of such things. (See Leviticus Chapter 18, and Deuteronomy 7:1-5; 20:15-18).
Marked for extermination means.....when Israel left Egypt to return to the promised land then occupied by Canaanites, Israel was commissioned to end, eradicate, completely destroy said Canaanites for said reasons.
The issue in its entirety does not hang on a couple of OT or NT verses. Study to show yourself approved.....search the scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by almeyda, posted 06-23-2004 11:39 PM almeyda has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 32 of 306 (121219)
07-02-2004 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
07-01-2004 10:21 PM


Lobsters
there is no condemnation of lobster or other food determined unfit for food.
Lobsters, pigs, shrimps, etc., are good for the purpose for which they were made. Garbage disposals. They eat scum, dead stuff, a pig will eat you if you are clumsy enough to get in its way. You want to eat stuff that eats filth is your affair.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 07-01-2004 10:21 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 1:51 PM PecosGeorge has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 306 (121220)
07-02-2004 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by PecosGeorge
07-02-2004 1:40 PM


Re: Lobsters
Well, actually, there is no rhyme or reason to the food proscriptions just as there is no rhyme or reason to the proscriptions against homosexuality.
From good old Leviticus...
10: And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12: Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
13: And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14: And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15: Every raven after his kind;
16: And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17: And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18: And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19: And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20: All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
The Eagle and the Osprey are both hunters as well as owls, swan, pelicans, storks, herons, and bats. They in fact eat many of the same things that were allowed as clean food.
Other than as a way to differentiate the Hebrews from surrounding tribes, there is little reason behind any of the proscriptions such as dietary or sexuality. It was far more a tattoo, a secret decoder ring or a gang sign than for any legitimate reason.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 1:40 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 07-02-2004 1:56 PM jar has replied
 Message 38 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 2:38 PM jar has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 34 of 306 (121222)
07-02-2004 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
07-02-2004 1:51 PM


Re: Lobsters
20: All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
!!!!????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 1:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 2:25 PM Coragyps has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 306 (121223)
07-02-2004 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Coragyps
07-02-2004 1:56 PM


Re: Lobsters
Hey, I didn't write it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 07-02-2004 1:56 PM Coragyps has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 306 (121226)
07-02-2004 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Coragyps
07-02-2004 1:56 PM


Re: Lobsters
You know, it's funny because that verse is written by the very people that the literalist say we should us as the final Authority. This is an example of the belief system, of the folk that know KIND and that know secrets we have yet to discover.
The Bible was written by people who did not understand the world around them. It is not a fault, but a fact. They simply did not have the thousands of years of observations that we have accumulated since then.
There will the those that say "God dictated and directed every title and dot" but surely God did not warn folk about " All fowls that creep, going upon all four". Well, I tend to think that there might be other things in the Bible that kinda got mangled in the translation as well.
I still believe, that when most Atheist and homosexuals die, they will find the Pearly Gates thrown open wide in welcome while the likes of Dr. "Beam the money up " Scott, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker and almost all the other Evangelists will not even get near the backdoor.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 07-02-2004 1:56 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-02-2004 2:36 PM jar has not replied
 Message 41 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 3:15 PM jar has replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 37 of 306 (121229)
07-02-2004 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
07-02-2004 2:25 PM


four-legged fowl fossils
but surely God did not warn folk about "All fowls that creep, going upon all four".
Why not? I'm sure there are some that would argue that all of the fowl matching this description died in the flood - you see, the faster flying fowl got to the ark in time, while those slow creeping fowl didn't quite make it.
I'm sure we'll find four-legged fowl fossils some day soon...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 2:25 PM jar has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 38 of 306 (121230)
07-02-2004 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
07-02-2004 1:51 PM


Try a
different translation. Modern King James; New English Translation.
"Peteinon" (fowl), formerly denoted all flying creatures. (for verse 20)
So, don't wear a big smile while biking.

Cactus and Scrub
and yellow grass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 1:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-02-2004 2:47 PM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 40 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 2:48 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 39 of 306 (121233)
07-02-2004 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by PecosGeorge
07-02-2004 2:38 PM


Re: Try a
"Peteinon" (fowl), formerly denoted all flying creatures. (for verse 20)
Translation issues are important.
But it seems to be in a pretty bird-centric context to me...
And your definition of "all flying creatures" seems to contradict the creeping-on-all-fours bit, since you would have creeping creatures and not flying creatures.
What flying creatures do you know of that creep along the ground on all fours? Injured bats, perhaps?
I'd say the intent of the verse was all flightless birds (like those dastardly penguins), but I believe that would rule out most chickens, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 2:38 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 306 (121234)
07-02-2004 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by PecosGeorge
07-02-2004 2:38 PM


Re: Try a
PecosGeorge writes:
Try a
different translation.
And that, my friend, is the beauty of the Bible as a source and guide. If you don't like what it says, then just pick a different translation.
Find a reference in the Bible that is opposed to homesexuality? All that is needed to refute it is to find the version of the Bible that does NOT include such a reference. See...
Message 6
Message 10
Message 14
for examples.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 2:38 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 41 of 306 (121238)
07-02-2004 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
07-02-2004 2:25 PM


Forty
years in the desert, they must have understood something about the world around them. Food preservation, water filtration, cleanliness, (bury excreta for reasons of sanitation). Mathematics, finding their way.....by what? Using the stars for navigation? (Magi for example)
Enjoy!

Cactus and Scrub
and yellow grass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 2:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 3:26 PM PecosGeorge has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 306 (121241)
07-02-2004 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by PecosGeorge
07-02-2004 3:15 PM


Just curious
But what does any of that have to do with the tpoic or most anything else for that matter?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 3:15 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-02-2004 4:26 PM jar has replied

PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 43 of 306 (121260)
07-02-2004 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
07-02-2004 3:26 PM


See
message 31 for on-topic.
I responded to a remark made about lobster.
Arie gur Yehuda is the only lion, Aslan by any other name, tame is how you know him now....but when he comes again with power and great glory, how will he appear to you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 3:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 4:30 PM PecosGeorge has not replied
 Message 45 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-02-2004 4:39 PM PecosGeorge has not replied
 Message 46 by jar, posted 07-02-2004 5:07 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 306 (121261)
07-02-2004 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by PecosGeorge
07-02-2004 4:26 PM


Re: See
Okay, but I still don't understand the relevance to the thread at all

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 306 (121263)
07-02-2004 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by PecosGeorge
07-02-2004 4:26 PM


Re: See
Arie gur Yehuda is the only lion, Aslan by any other name, tame is how you know him now....but when he comes again with power and great glory, how will he appear to you?
Hopefully bearing waffles. I haven't had waffles in ages.

"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

This message is a reply to:
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