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Author Topic:   God is cruel
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 301 (300633)
04-03-2006 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Protomenace
04-02-2006 7:15 PM


"Cruel" here is being used in a moral sense (it's immoral to be cruel). But if we have no objective morality, then our moral judgments are subjective and hence meaningless as far as being proofs of anything.
So if you say "The fact that atheists go to hell is an immoral act on the part of God," you have uttered a mere subjective statement which proves nothing one way or another about God.
If there is no God, then our morality is subjective.
You would need an objective morality, provided by God, to prove that God is cruel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Protomenace, posted 04-02-2006 7:15 PM Protomenace has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 04-03-2006 2:54 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 301 (300644)
04-03-2006 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
04-03-2006 2:54 PM


You may have just proved the necessity of the existence of God, Robin.
No, all I've done is eliminate what might be called "the moral argument against God."
I haven't proven anything in regard to God's existence. All I've done is say that we cannot judge God morally if our morality is subjective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 04-03-2006 2:54 PM Faith has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 301 (300645)
04-03-2006 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Dan Carroll
04-03-2006 2:59 PM


Is it objective? No.
But if it's not objective, it's useless as a proof of anything. It's just a personal preference we have. We can't prove God is cruel if we have no objective knowledge of what constitutes cruelty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-03-2006 2:59 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-03-2006 3:07 PM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 301 (300652)
04-03-2006 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Dan Carroll
04-03-2006 3:07 PM


Actually, there's a hidden argument here. Note this from the OP.
So, I have to assume that A. God is cruel. or B. God isn't real.
What he's really saying is that if God existed he would be cruel (so He doesn't exist). But if our morality is subjective, then we can't make objective moral judgments.
So we can't prove God doesn't exist by calling him cruel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-03-2006 3:07 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Protomenace, posted 04-03-2006 3:16 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 45 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-03-2006 3:22 PM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 61 by Chiroptera, posted 04-03-2006 5:11 PM robinrohan has not replied

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