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| Author | Topic: Did Jesus Exist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Phat Member  Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Mini-Ditka writes:
There does seem to be little secular evidence (at least that I am aware of) concerning the existence of jesus. God is internally "perceived" as a concept and a reality by many people the world over, and in many different ways. Jseus Christ, however, is only real to those whom the Father has chosen to make real.
NIV writes: Matt 16:13-20-- When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." There is controversy to be sure, but I personally am no more liable to take the word of a group of "esteemed secular authorities" any more than they will take the word as it is wriitten! To be quite frank, I believe that because Jesus is real, there is a type of a "spiritual" battle in society that seeks to discredit His existance!
Brennakimi writes:
Outside of what? the only available testimony is in so called 'holy books'. these have no reliability outside their own word. we can't trust that as historically accurate until there is outside proof. While it is often good and healthy to examine organized religion by consulting "experts" outside its ranks, you will not find definite theological answeres from these so-called experts not only because they have no agenda (as many claim) but because they are incapable of seeing the forest apart from the trees in regards to divine impartation---they simply won't take that necessary first step and believe!
Jar writes: Thats like saying that if your money in the bank is fictional money, you still have $100,000.00! As you yourself may say, if the money has value, than it has value regardless of if we can see it or not..if it has no value, it has no value even if we could see it! There is almost no verifiable evidence that Jesus existed outside the record in the Bible and extrabiblical scripture. Personally, I believe Jesus existed, but even if he is only a fictional character, the message is still a valid one. If Jesus is who He said He is, no amount of atheist skeptics will ever discredit the reality of Gods character....but IF Jesus is not who He said He is, no amount of internal credibility from any individual will ever be able to "invent" a God. I agree only in that it is a matter of faith and belief. The facts are not conclusive either way. This message has been edited by Phat, 01-05-2006 09:59 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Whats the definition of a positive claim, anyway? The "other" side is making a positive claim inferring human wisdom as being able to imagine a universe (without a God) bigger than we will ever see in our lifetimes. I am convinced that some people delight in attempting to make a mockery of a God whom they would rather not obey! Oh well!
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Pink sasquatch writes: Actually, Im making an a-priori claim using God as evidence for Christians..Hindus...atheists...matter...thought...creation in general! If you use Christians as evidence for God, then you must also accept that the hundreds of millions of faithful Hindus are evidence that their Gods exist. And you base your lack of evidence on....(?) Science? History? Human wisdom?  Its OK, really. I won't be baited into a futile argument trying to prove my point. Its as Jesus said: Flesh and Bllod has not revealed this to you...but only my Father in Heaven. Its a matter of belief, to be sure. Free Thinkers by definition seem to limit themselves by not committing to anything that they cannot rationalize!
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Faith writes: Of course they have no problem.(seeing Jesus as another incarnation) They already have multiple deities, avatars and incarnations of God, no problem adding another one. The Roman Empire didn't have any problem adding another deity either, and would have been happy to incorporate the Christian God, but the Christians' refusal to acknowledge their multiple gods got them thrown to the lions. Christianity makes a claim to exclusive truth. It's not popular, the religions of the multiple gods are so much more... "tolerant" ... but it is the truth. I agree with you, Faith...but most people who are freethinkersa and who reject Christ as God incarnate will rant and rail against such talk! It IS a spiritual war, and the fact that we can't prove it does not matter. It is Gods battle, and He told us that they would persecute us as they did Him! Indeed, Jesus DID and DOES exist, and no amount of blather will erase this profound fact! YES I am making a positive truth claim...(deal with it!) This message has been edited by Phat, 01-07-2006 10:45 PM For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The topic is the historicity of Jesus. - The Queen Ifen, you have a point. Like my quote says, I have no problem with flesh and blood. People are entitled to believe whatever they want. My rant is not directed at people...its directed at the philosophies behind the beliefs and the principalities in control of these philosophies. Christianity is a narrow and exclusive truth claim. It is not always popular...and I am in one of those conservative moods right now---I mean no offense toward anyone personally.
--Apostle Paul, under the unction of the Holy Spirit This message has been edited by Phat, 01-07-2006 10:54 PM This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 01-07-2006 11:54 PM For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
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