Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,910 Year: 4,167/9,624 Month: 1,038/974 Week: 365/286 Day: 8/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A question that was first presented by Socrates.
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 314 (145658)
09-29-2004 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Rrhain
09-29-2004 5:22 AM


The fig tree incident is an excellent visual aid.
"While there were occasional periods of spiritual revival among the Hebrews (as in the days of Josiah, a good king - see 2 Kgs. 22-23), the tragic fact is, the nation was on a gradual, degenerative slide — a path of apostasy that would culminate with the blood-thirsty cry, Crucify him! Crucify him! (Lk. 23:21). The Jewish people, through the influence they exerted upon the Roman authorities (see Mt. 20:19; Acts 2:23), had Jesus killed. They murdered the very Messiah for whom they had waited across the centuries (see Mt. 21:33ff). Though they had enjoyed every conceivable spiritual advantage, they had become, for the most part, an utterly renegade nation.
In the symbolism of the Scriptures, a fruitless, withered tree was worthy of nothing more than being cut down (cf. Psa. 90:6; Hos. 9:16). Withering was a symbol of imminent death (Joel 1:12). In the blasting of this fruitless fig tree, the Son of God was suggesting this:
  1. The nation, as a political entity, had become a worthless mechanism in the sacred scheme of things. It thus was worthy of nothing but destruction.
  2. That destruction would shortly come (within forty years — A.D. 66-70) with the invasion of the land by the Roman armies (cf. Mt. 22:7ff; 24:15ff).
  3. The punishment would be complete and final; the tree would be dead from the very roots (Mk. 11:20).*"
Wayne Jackson, Christiancourier.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Rrhain, posted 09-29-2004 5:22 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Rrhain, posted 09-30-2004 9:40 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 314 (145660)
09-29-2004 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Rrhain
09-26-2004 8:30 PM


Hi Rrhain,
Rrhain writes:
"Why do you think he made a covenant with Noah after the flood never to flood the earth again?
Because he made a mistake. He did something wrong. In fact, the entire reason that god flooded the world was because he realized he made a mistake:
Genesis 6:6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Why would god repent if he hadn't sinned?"
The phrase "it repented the LORD" as used in this context conveys the idea that he regretted making man on the earth.
Genesis 6:12 says:
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
You are interpreting man's decisions to be God's mistake?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Rrhain, posted 09-26-2004 8:30 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Rrhain, posted 09-30-2004 9:43 AM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 314 (145667)
09-29-2004 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Rrhain
09-26-2004 12:32 AM


Rrhain writes:
"In fact, if you read the creation stories of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, you can see a shift in the personality of god. In Gen 1, god is perfect, makes no mistakes, and everything is good. But in Gen 2, god is continually backing up and correcting for things that were done incompletely and incorrectly. For the first time, we hear god say, "It is not good" (in reference to man being alone). Why is man alone if it is not good? Wouldn't god always do good? After all, in Gen 1, god had the sense to create male and female together at the same time."
I'm not sure if you are of the opinion that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 give conflicting accounts of God's creation of Adam and Eve. I sense that from your statement above. If I am wrong, I apologize.
Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 do not conflict. Genesis 1 simply states that they were created. Genesis 2 gives the details of their creation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Rrhain, posted 09-26-2004 12:32 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Rrhain, posted 09-30-2004 9:50 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 314 (145978)
09-30-2004 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Rrhain
09-30-2004 9:43 AM


Rrhain writes:
"God made man and could easily have made man to be better."
How so?
"So which is it? Do male humans come after the animals as Gen 1 specifically details or before as Gen 2 claims?"
Genesis 1 gives the chronology of events. Genesis 2 gives the other details.
The fact that Genesis 2 restates that things were created doesn't mean they are being created again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Rrhain, posted 09-30-2004 9:43 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by jar, posted 09-30-2004 11:16 AM dpardo has not replied
 Message 97 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2004 6:35 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 314 (148086)
10-07-2004 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Rrhain
10-07-2004 3:06 AM


Hi Rrhain,
I think we may be talking about two different things here when we say God is unchanging.
Are you referring to his character or whether or not he can change his mind?
There are a few examples I can think of where God has planned to punish an individual or a group but, "changes his mind", because he/they repent of their sins.
Did he change his mind, as we understand the phrase, or did he simply have two (or more) courses of action planned depending on what the individual/group did?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Rrhain, posted 10-07-2004 3:06 AM Rrhain has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 314 (148092)
10-07-2004 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by ramoss
10-07-2004 10:43 AM


Hi ramoss,
ramoss writes:
"Was killing all those people in sodom and Gomorria good? Was the alleged event of the flood good?
If so, why was it good?"
From the perspective that God justly punishes the wicked, sometimes severely, it is good.
Is justice good?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by ramoss, posted 10-07-2004 10:43 AM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 4:43 AM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 314 (148667)
10-09-2004 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Rrhain
10-09-2004 4:43 AM


Hi Rrhain,
Rrhain writes:
If the flood was good, why did god repent after he did it, admit it was wicked...
Can you please post the verses in Genesis that support this so that we can examine them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 4:43 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 6:06 PM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 314 (149170)
10-11-2004 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Rrhain
10-09-2004 6:06 PM


Hi Rrhain,
I did not see support for your statement that God admitted it was wicked.
Instead of posting an army of verses that do not support your statement, can you actually post a verse that does?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 6:06 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 7:03 AM dpardo has replied
 Message 125 by AdminNosy, posted 10-16-2004 11:42 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 314 (150314)
10-16-2004 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Rrhain
10-16-2004 7:03 AM


Hi Rrhain,
You wrote:
Because god goes on and on and on when he repents. What is the point of the rainbow? Why on earth would god make a promise to never, ever do it again? If killing everything on earth is not wicked, why would god proclaim that it is off limits? Why on earth would god care what humans thought if it weren't wicked? Why form a covenant with humans to never, ever do it again if everyone agreed it needed to be done and was a good thing to do?
You seem to be saying that unless the Bible has a verse saying, "I, the lord, your god, being of sound mind and body, do solmenly swear that my actions were wicked," then it doesn't count.
Ahhh. Now I understand you.
You are saying that God's words imply that he admitted it was wicked.
Is this correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 7:03 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 6:49 PM dpardo has replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 314 (150315)
10-16-2004 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Rrhain
10-16-2004 7:03 AM


Rrhain writes:
Fine...will you accept that god's direct statement that he is the source of all evil?
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
What an incredibly fascinating statement.
I think this would be an excellent thread on it's own.
Would you like to start a new thread with this statement in the topic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 7:03 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 6:55 PM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 314 (150893)
10-18-2004 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Rrhain
10-16-2004 6:49 PM


If it's alright with you, I'd like to address each one of your quotes in Message 128 individually rather than create a very long post.
Please give me some time here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 6:49 PM Rrhain has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 314 (151114)
10-19-2004 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Rrhain
10-16-2004 6:49 PM


Hi Rrhain!
You wrote:
Genesis 6:6: And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
The term "repented" as used in this verse means regretted.
Man had corrupted God's way on the earth and the thoughts of man were evil continuously.
Exodus 32:14: And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Here, the term "repented" means changed his mind.
God had planned to punish the people but he changed his mind. Moses petitioned to God to spare the people- a good example that God indeed does listen to prayers and petitions.
1 Samuel 15:10: Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,
15:11: It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.
1 Samuel 15:35: And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
Once again, here the term "repenteth", as used in these verses, means regretted.
I will break here but I will return later.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Rrhain, posted 10-16-2004 6:49 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by coffee_addict, posted 10-19-2004 2:56 PM dpardo has replied
 Message 187 by Rrhain, posted 10-25-2004 1:42 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 314 (151128)
10-19-2004 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by coffee_addict
10-19-2004 2:56 PM


I am not changing the meaning of the words.
The meaning of the words should be interpreted within the context of the verses.
The verses themselves should be interpreted within the context of the chapters.
Finally, the chapters should be interpreted within the context of all scripture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by coffee_addict, posted 10-19-2004 2:56 PM coffee_addict has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 314 (151131)
10-19-2004 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by coffee_addict
10-19-2004 2:56 PM


I believe the term used to describe taking quotes out of context is called "quote mining".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by coffee_addict, posted 10-19-2004 2:56 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Rrhain, posted 10-25-2004 1:44 AM dpardo has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 314 (152865)
10-25-2004 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by pink sasquatch
10-25-2004 6:00 PM


Pink Sasquatch writes:
But in the Bible He goes back on his word, by commanding people to violate His commandments.
Where in the bible does God do this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by pink sasquatch, posted 10-25-2004 6:00 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by pink sasquatch, posted 10-25-2004 7:18 PM dpardo has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024