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Topic: Were there Dinosaurs in the Bible?
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Most Christians would say no, there were no dinosaurs in the Bible. But most Christians don't believe that the Genesis Creation story was ever meant to be taken literally anyway. Most Christians support the Theory of Evolution and would agree that the dinosaurs died off long before even the first primates.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Tel Rinsiel, posted 08-11-2004 8:41 PM | | Tel Rinsiel has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Many individuals don't understand evolution. But the religions certainly do and the educated priests and clergy certainly do. The vast majority of Christian education institutes teach evolution as well. For the vast majority of Christian faiths support Evolution and have publicly come out in opposition of teaching Creationism. One more time, if it's okay, let me list some of the Religious groups in the US that support Evolution and oppose Creationism.
quote:
Religions Supporting Evolution These churches and religious organizations have come out in opposition to teaching creationism in school: * American Jewish Congress
* American Scientific Affiliation
* Center For Theology And The Natural Sciences
* Central Conference Of American Rabbis
* Episcopal Bishop Of Atlanta, Pastoral Letter
* The General Convention Of The Episcopal Church
* Lexington Alliance Of Religious Leaders
* The Lutheran World Federation
* Roman Catholic Church
* Unitarian Universalist Association
* United Church Board For Homeland Ministries
* United Methodist Church
* United Presbyterian Church In The U.S.A.
But then many Christians I've met don't have a clue about Christianity either. 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 19 of 222 (134362)
08-16-2004 2:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by Hydarnes
08-16-2004 1:45 PM
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Well, let's look at that reference.
15: Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16: Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17: He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18: His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19: He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20: Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21: He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22: The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23: Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24: He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares. So where is the Dinosaur in that chapter? It takes a fertile imagination to see a dinosaur in any of that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by Hydarnes, posted 08-16-2004 1:45 PM | | Hydarnes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by Hydarnes, posted 08-16-2004 2:29 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 26 of 222 (134374)
08-16-2004 2:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by Hydarnes
08-16-2004 2:29 PM
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Well, dinosaurs ranged from massive to tiny. They were herbivorous, carniferous and some that were simply opportunistic. The description is far more of the massive bull that was worshipped by many societies around the area, a cud chewing stud. That's all. A big potent, phallic bull. Let the folk read the passage. If they can get a dinosaur out of that then fine. I have no problem letting them decide for themselves. But I find the description to be simply prosaic, a description of ordinary critter exageratied as in most of the OT topics. It's as believable that it is a dinosaur as Jonah's Great Fish. It is certainly insufficient as description of a dinosaur.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by Hydarnes, posted 08-16-2004 2:29 PM | | Hydarnes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 27 by Hydarnes, posted 08-16-2004 2:40 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 29 of 222 (134380)
08-16-2004 2:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by Hydarnes
08-16-2004 2:40 PM
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Well, the critter eats grass like an Ox. Sounds like some bull. The critter has stones the size of a Creationists ego. Sounds pretty much like more bull to me. He spins a tall tale. Yup, still more bull. And drinks up most everything. Yup, Creationist Bull, no doubt. Now, where in the segment is there anything about a dinosaur? Hydarnes, if you want to believe it refers to a dinosaur, fine. You are certainly entitled to hold such an opinion. But I and many others see far more resemblance to Minotaur than Dinosaur.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Hydarnes, posted 08-16-2004 2:40 PM | | Hydarnes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by Hydarnes, posted 08-16-2004 2:52 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Dragon/Behemoth/Leviathan
Dragon - is mentioned 28 times in the Bible
Behemoth - is described in Job 40:15-24
Leviathan - is described in Job 41; Psalm 104:25,26; Isa.:27:1 And why would anyone think any of those are a Dinosaur?
Carbon-dating is an inexact science, and millions of years are, actually, rather illogical. Somewhat off topic, and millions, no billions of years is actually very logical.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by PecosGeorge, posted 08-17-2004 10:47 AM | | PecosGeorge has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 56 of 222 (134827)
08-18-2004 12:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 55 by Buzsaw
08-18-2004 12:52 AM
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There's a good chance that the smaller ones did not becoming extinct. They are called birds.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 08-18-2004 12:52 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 08-18-2004 9:56 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 61 of 222 (134892)
08-18-2004 10:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Buzsaw
08-18-2004 9:56 AM
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jar writes: There's a good chance that the smaller ones did not becoming extinct. They are called birds. quote:
buzsaw replied
LOL, so long as you remember how you harp at us that chance is not science.
In this case it is. It's yet another great example of macro-evolution.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 08-18-2004 9:56 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 67 of 222 (134947)
08-18-2004 12:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 65 by Buzsaw
08-18-2004 12:15 PM
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Trying to head back towards the topic
To compare intelligent humankind to ignorant brute beasts who seldom walk on two legs is a real stretch. Used a few emotionally charged words there Buz. How many world wars have the great apes started? LOL Not so sure which are the brutes. So what makes you think that dinosaurs were in the Bible?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by Buzsaw, posted 08-18-2004 12:15 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 88 of 222 (135325)
08-19-2004 4:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 87 by Hydarnes
08-19-2004 4:54 PM
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Re: Reptiles
Because crocodiles are most certainly not dinosaurs.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by Hydarnes, posted 08-19-2004 4:54 PM | | Hydarnes has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 128 of 222 (135673)
08-20-2004 12:50 PM
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Trying to head towards the topic.
The Creationists seem to have been able to change the direction, play the old shell game once again. The issue is not if dinosaurs are reptiles but if dinosaurs are in the Bible. To try to head back towards the topic, is there any evidence that Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible? I'm perfectly willing to believe that the people living in Biblical, particularly OT times, might well have found fossils. In fact, it's likely that even pre-flood (or whatever minor event led to the myth of the flood) they might well have found fossils. Those fossils would likely have been misidentified, just as they were throughout all time until fairly recently. It is far more reasonable to believe that tales of giants, fanciful animals and even great whales were the result of early fossil finds than that living Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 132 of 222 (135686)
08-20-2004 1:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 131 by Buzsaw
08-20-2004 1:30 PM
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Don't know why you included me?
I just said that I see no evidence of dinosaurs in the Bible. Since I believe that the creation myths in the Bible were never meant to be taken literally, any talk of the fall and snakes being dinosaurs I just toss aside. There is certainly no evidence whatsoever of any such event so it's pretty hard to take such things seriously.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 131 by Buzsaw, posted 08-20-2004 1:30 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 137 of 222 (135696)
08-20-2004 2:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 135 by Hydarnes
08-20-2004 2:10 PM
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Re: Don't know why you included me?
And yet you failed to justify that stance when it came down to the Biblical reference. LOL You would perhaps like Biblical references on why the Bible should be taken figuratively?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 135 by Hydarnes, posted 08-20-2004 2:10 PM | | Hydarnes has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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When is a tail a penis?
Do you seriously think that God is talking about a penis like a cedar tree? No, not GOD, the authors of the passage. And yes, they were saying that the critter was hung like an ox. They were, as was common in many fertility rites, equating the size of the genitals with overall power and prowess. Well, actually I'm pretty sure that is exactly what he thinks, as do almost all others who study the Bible. And that's what the sources say as well. It's not much different than current idimatic sayings such as "getting a piece of tail". If you think that refers to a genuine tail you've led a sheltered life. But just read the rest of your post. There you are simply interpreting, adding conotation based on your imagination. And there is nothing wrong with that. The passage was intended to create a vision of a powerful critter. But to jump from there to dinosaurs is really a leap of faith.
The point I was making is you can't just say, its not a dinosaur because the King James version says behemoth has a navel. You can say it's not a dinosaur because the authors didn't know about dinosaurs. There are some interesting finds though that show that bronze age folk were aware of fossils though and often puzzeled over what they were. There are indications that they based many of the fanciful creatures in myth on reconstruction (mental only) of the fossil remains.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 155 by guitarzilla, posted 12-04-2004 11:15 AM | | guitarzilla has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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What is Behemoth?
Just so I can know where you guys are coming from, what do you believe the behemoth is? Another mythical critter like the unicorn, griffin, cyclops and so many others.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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