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Author | Topic: Were there Dinosaurs in the Bible? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Hi Tel. Welcome! If you go back about a month you will find a thread, WHY ARE THERE VENEMOUS SNAKES. The following is my message 11 on that thread in which I offer my reasons for believing dinosaurs were in the garden and the parent dinosaurs could have survived throughout the earth until the flood. Also I don't believe they were on the ark. If you read the exchanges after my post 11 with others, you will see how I think on this subject.
Perhaps the Biblical answer lies in the details of the curse upon the serpents in Genesis 3: 15, "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel."
The serpent was radically changed at the fall, according to the Genesis account. The clear implication is that the prefallen ones had longer legs and were walking and possibly flying creatures. Imo, the prefallen serpents were the dinosaurs whose offspring became snakes, lizzards, allegators, etc. They are all of the serpent family. Likely two not mentioned results were diminished intelligence and poisonous venom. The serpents were the most intelligent of the animal kingdom at creation according to the account. A lot happened at this catastrophy of the fall, including thorny plants and so forth. I believe some plants became poisonous as well. I do not agree with most creationists such as ICR who believe and teach that dinosaurs were in Noah's ark. I do believe however, that the parent prefallen dinosaurs lived very long lives and many survived until the flood which would have been about 1500 years since many humans lived nearly a thousand years.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Thanks for the welcome. But... what about scientists' way of dating the fossils of dinosaurs? Scientists say that there were mass extinctions of dinosaur species around 65-70 million years ago. Have we really found human bones that date as far back as that? If the answer would be that some of them could have died off before Adam and Eve were "created", it would still pose a problem since none of "God's" creations can die yet before Adam and Eve disobeyed "God". I believe there was a terrarium canopy over the earth before the flood and elements in the atmosphere and so forth were so much different then that dating methods show things to be much older than in actuality. I also believe much of what was created was created with the appearance of age. To go into all this and debate it is another issue but that's my position which I certainly cannot prove but don't think it can be proven to be bogus either. Obviously man, the animals and things like the sun and moon were created with the appearance of age, if indeed they were created and that applies to the earth, many rocks, gems, etc as well.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I find it hard to believe since the dinosaurs were all sizes from tiny all the way up that they could all become extinct because of weather and other species of animals who were alive at that time could survive. This, I believe lends credence to my hypotheses that the dinosaurs were the pre-cursed serpents/reptiles. Take an alligator or crock, and if you could inflate them and fit them up with long front legs and eliminate the hind legs you would have a dinosaur looking animal. We know also they were animals which laid eggs as do the modern serpents/reptiles.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
There's a good chance that the smaller ones did not becoming extinct. They are called birds. LOL, so long as you remember how you harp at us that chance is not science.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
They didn't all become extinct. Stop by your zoo's aviary and you can see what's left of the dinosaurs. Our evidence for the Biblical Exodus and a lot more is greater by far than your so called evidence for this.
Shave a gorilla and you'd have something that looks like a human. Does that prove that Adam was an ape to you? Somehow I doubt it. Apples and spinach. Reptiles to reptiles more scientific analysis than intelligent humans to brute beast.
There are significant differences between crocodiles and dinosaurs, not the least of which is the fact that dinosaurs were warm-blooded while crocs are not; as well, crocs predate dinosaurs by millions of years. So why did all dinosaurs, big and little all die off and the crocs, as well as so many other things survive the same catastrophe that wiped out ALL dinosaurs? My hypothesis offers a more likely answer to that in light of so much else which lends credence to the historicity of the Biblical record.
Plenty of mammals lay eggs, as do birds. Egg-laying is not unique to reptiles. Make that a few. I didn't say egg laying was unique to reptiles. It is however unusual for mamals and significant, imo. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-18-2004 10:05 AM
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Dinosaurs aren't reptiles, Buz. For one thing, no reptile is warm-blooded. Why do you keep on keeping on with this falacy, CF? We've gone over this before and now are you going to debate Ned on this too? This ought to be interesting.
Humans and chimpanzees, for example, are considerably more similar than any dinosaur is to a reptile. To compare intelligent humankind to ignorant brute beasts who seldom walk on two legs is a real stretch. Comparing reptile to reptile is not as much, given that the Biblical historical record accounts for the changes which would have been effected when they were cursed.
As I said, not all dinoaurs were wiped out. The small ones survived. Ultimately, as their environments were encroached by the much more successful mammals, the only dinosaurs who survived were the ones who enjoyed the advantages of feathers and flight. That's pure conjecture which is no more substantiated than my hypothesis.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Because it's not fallacious, it's true. Dinosaurs are not reptiles. Reptiles are cold-blooded; dinosaurs are not. Why is it that you are incapable of understanding that there once existed reptiles which were allegedly warm blooded? We call them dinosaurs.
As I recall, you abandonded the thread where we were "going over this". There comes a time when we all quit each and every thread we've ever been involved in. For me it was time and this is a good examply of why it often becomes futile to debate with you.
Ned, to my knowledge, has not disagreed. Oh, but he does disagree. As I said, it would be interesting, you and he being at odds. He's with my dictionary here and with science as well. You have your work cut out.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Dinosaurs are certainly members of class Reptilia, but they are not, to my knowledge, reptiles. They're dinosaurs. Your knowledge is stubornly flawed and it appears your will continue in your falacious notion, no matter what. Dinosaurs are referred to as reptiles all over the place including Google and my dictionary. I know it tears up Ned something awful to have to agree with me, but I gotta give him credit. It's rare for one of your own to correct one of you if it should mean agreement with your counterparts.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Crash, you have produced one author who decides to revise a whole lota books including nearly all dictionaries, encyclopedias and other books written over many centuries as well as current ones. For centuries dinosaurs have been regarded as reptiles and I'm sticking with the thousands of books which regard them as reptiles and you can go on with your one or two revisionist microspectors. Now don't accuse me of bailing out, but you and your new convert Ned will need to respectfully disagree with me on this one.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-18-2004 09:07 PM
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
For the purpose of my stated hypothesis that the dinosaurs were the pre-cursed reptiles, I believe it has been established that the dinosaurs were reptilian enough to fit the ticket. Crash asks why there should be fossils if dinosaurs lived before the fall. I have explained my hypothesis on that several times on different threads in the past, but for the purpose of this thread, I see the need to repeat it.
Since man lived up to nine hundred and something it is likely, imo, that the dinosaur pre-cursed parents lived up until the flood which would have been about 1500 years. They were a higher species of animals than all other animals according to Genesis where we are told they were more intelligent than the other animals. My thinking is that the offspring of the original animals were born as belly crawling, though the eggs likely appeared no different.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Irrelevant question. I make no secret that I'm no biologist, and I've cited all my sources. Not irrevelant atol, Crashy. You're being stubbornly disingenuous here. On the one hand you admit you're no biological authority and on the other you insist your scanty few sources which counter about everything else are the only valid authority. You ought to at least concede that your sources are not the absolute exclusive authority on this matter.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Dinosaurs inhabited the Earth for several hundred million years. The fuel in your auto is a distalant of the crude oil that made up the plant material of they're time. Man was NOT contemporary with dinosaurs. The time line is very clear. Now there are creatures extant today that were contemporary with Dinosaurs such as turtles, some insects, sharks, etc.. but bipedal homonids did not ever lay eyes on a T.rex until the first bones of T. rex where uncovered millions of years post theyre demise. Now your beliefs are beliefs but lets not confuse the facts. The whole of science disagrees with man being conterporary with Dinosaurs Buzz. Your hypothesis is totally flies in the face of what is born out in current supported theories. That's all nice and dandy if you deny that ever so evident other dimension in the universe, the spiritual and the God of the universe. My hypothesis is, don't forget, based on the Genesis record. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else were around these scores of millions of years ago, so my hypothesis is every bit as possible as current supported theories, and btw, your supported theories not supported by all scientists.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
, I understand you believe that Dinosaurs were around during the antediluvian time, but has there really been any genuine hard evidence that supprorts the notion of man and Dinosaurs existence? The nearest thing to hard evidence that I know of is the alleged human imprints superimposed over dino prints at Carl Baugh's site in Texas which all my counterparts reject, but none have effectively refuted it imo. I believe some contend there are others as well, but not sure about that.I believe one objection is that they consider the imprints to be too large, but that has been countered by the likelihood that erosion made them larger. I tend to go with the Biblical record because of the large quantity of fulfilled prophecy and other evidence such as archeological and historical which lends credence to the Biblical record as historically accurate, and of course, I'm basing my hypothesis on that assumption.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
You can check out this site to get a good overview of the understanding of dinosaurs and the evidence used to argue the points. FossilNews.com – A Blog On All Things Fossil And More… Your site concedes to the following: 1. That whether dinosaurs, some dinosaurs, or all dinosaurs were warm blooded is controversial. 2. That some believe the erect animals were more likely to be warm blooded. This lends to my hypothesis, since it has the erect having been changed into modern short legged reptiles and this change could have also brought about a change in the physiology of them.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Well, the sources I provided - two textbooks of undergraduate and graduate level - did counter, and were more authoritative, than anything you provided, which were: 1) Your own assertion 2) An unnamed dictionary 3) Google No, that's not all. I said, ".............about everything else...." That means almost everything else contradicts your sources. You were'nt born yesterday, Crashy. You are fully aware, no doubt, that almost everthing else including the encyclopedias, dictionaries, journals and text books are with me on this. This generation which the Bible depicts as the generation who is "ever learning and not able to come to the knowledge of the truth" seems to be bent on revising all to much for the sake of change. Revisionists are revising everything from social issues to history to science, much of what is not more enlightening, but which muddles the truth and distorts reality. This reptile thing, imo, is a good example of that.
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