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Author | Topic: Evolution for Dummies and Christians | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Carico Inactive Member |
You just contradicted yourself. You said that we've been able to cross-breed to obtain a chihuahua from a wolf and now you say they cannot interbreed. So which is it?
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Carico Inactive Member |
If a human being takes a sperm from one dog and fertilizes it with the egg from another dog and that creates a new breed, then why do humans do that if those dogs could do it by themselves??? You forget that humans were not around to manipulte the egg and sperm of apes to create the human being! So again, your point is completely useless. Cross-breeding is a HUMAN manipulation. It does not occur on its own because animals only mate within their own species. Lions are not attracted to leopards and tigers are not attracted to wolves. Only human beings can manipulate the egg and sperm from each species to breed animals. And again, the human wasn't around to do that before the human being waas created.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
one intermediate can obviously interbreed with the ones before and after it, but after a certain distance, the ability to interbredd declines so that end results generally cannot breed.
with a chihuahua and a great dane, i suspect it's actually strictly practical reasons, not genetic ones.
quote: seriously, can you image a great dane getting on with a chihuahua? either way, i feel bad for the female. This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 12-07-2005 11:29 PM
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6013 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
You said that we've been able to cross-breed to obtain a chihuahua from a wolf and now you say they cannot interbreed. So which is it? Both are true. Over thousands of generations, canis were selectively bred, very gradually becoming less and less wolf-like and more and more chihuahua-like with each generation. After all of those generations, trying to naturally mate the chihuahua "product" with the wild wolves it was derived from is essentially impossible. From your comments throughout the board you seem to be working under the misconception that evolution from one species to another occurs in a single generation, so that you envision a scenario such as a chimp giving birth to a human. This is the exact opposite of what the Theory of Evolution predicts. In fact, if a chimp gave birth to a human, the Theory of Evolution would be falsified, that is, proved wrong. Instead, evolution is extremely gradual in nearly all instances. Welcome to the forum - I hope you stay awhile and keep an open mind.
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Carico Inactive Member |
Oh? And when was the magic point where certain dogs stopped breed with other dogs and apes stopped interbreeding with humans? Do you even know what you're saying? You're suggesting offspring through bestiality which is not only perverse, but has never shown to be possible. You also have zero proof that animals and humans have EVER been able to interbreed except only in the imagination.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Lions are not attracted to leopards and tigers are not attracted to wolves. no, but apparently if you put a lion and a tiger of opposite sexes in a cage, they do mate.
quote: the only reason they don't breed in the wild is because they don't live in the same places.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1457 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
And when was the magic point where certain dogs stopped breed with other dogs and apes stopped interbreeding with humans? For humans? Roughly 2 million years ago. By the way, the "magic point" is called "speciation."
You're suggesting offspring through bestiality which is not only perverse, That's your argument? Evolution is wrong because you don't like sex with animals?
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6344 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
It appears you not only don't understand the Theory of Evolution but you don't have the slightest grasp of selective breeding either.
For the umpteenth time... In the ancient past our ancestors began to domesticate wolves. Apparently from the DNA evidence it was specifically grey wolves. By a process of selective breeding (i.e. getting rid of the animals with traits they didn't want and keeping and breeding from those with traits they did want) they began to change the population of wolves they were dealing with. Over a large number of generations the wolves became less and less wolf like and more and more dog like. Eventually the animals were wolves, not dogs. All of the modern breeds of dog descend from these populations of domesticated wolves. I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Oh? And when was the magic point where certain dogs stopped breed with other dogs and apes stopped interbreeding with humans? who said anything about apes and humans? i was just pointing out that chihuahuas and great danes could concievably interbreed if it were practical. they are the same species, even genetically. even across species, many animals can and do interbreed. some because of humans, other do it themselves.
quote: evidently, this line does not lie at the species boundary.
Do you even know what you're saying? yes, i do. do you know what i'm saying? evidently not, mr. jump-to-conclusions.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
By the way, the "magic point" is called "speciation." i hate to be a pain in the ass about this, but there ARE species that can and do interbreed.
Evolution is wrong because you don't like sex with animals? i don't believe in aids either.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1457 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
i hate to be a pain in the ass about this, but there ARE species that can and do interbreed. Well, the first hard and fast rule of biology is that there are no hard and fast rules (exception: this rule).
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
As I noted in the post I refered to in Message 161 in Message 200 there isn't likely to be any such "magic point".
Carico? It seems you didn't read that reference. If you don't read what information you are given and ask about it you will not make any progress here.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
Carico, Did you read the post I refered you to in Message 200?
You are taking the approach, still, that you know something about this and will catch people in major flaws. While individuals will make mistakes here what you are told is generally correct. When it sound crazy to you it is because you don't understand it. If you keep up your current attitude you will either make no progress or find it much, much slower than it has to be. Evolutionary theory is, at one level, simple. The details are horrifically complex. Try to get an overall understanding before you dive in too deep. The other thing you need to get straight is that if you've been fed material by the likes of the Institute for Creation Research or Answers in Genesis or many others you have been lied to or at least deliberately mislead. You may not be ready to accept that as the case yet but it will make it easier if you take that as a bit of background and a working hypothosis for the moment. It might help clear the clutter out for you. The other working idea to keep in mind is that you will not be deliberately mislead my most folks here. I hope we aren't all jumping on too fast. It may be a lot but it may also help if we present the same information in different ways.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 467 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
According to your logic, we should just keep the belief that the earth was the center of the universe and that there was no such thing as a supernova.
You claimed to have accepted the theory of evolution for 30 years. I'm beginning to think that you're only 15 for having such naive beliefs.
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6013 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
evidently, this line does not lie at the species boundary. It doesn't lie at the genus boundary, either. (At least not for cichlids).
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