Universe Race

And yet just about every cosmologist uses this analogy... so who's understanding do you think is screwed? Do you really think that you should be dismissing this analogy out of hand, becuase you have found problems with it?Do you not think that a better attitude would be to ask for clarification because you are confused about the possibility and actuality of galactic collisions?You have completely misunderstood the cone analogy - there is no interior to the cone. It is exactly the same situation as with the balloon - all that exists is the surface.

Until the matter that is the cake batter changes phases. When you break down atoms and even subatomic particles, you can squeeze an aweful lot into a small area...especially when area itself was smaller. "Pure energy" is a poor term. There really isn't any such thing - energy, scientifically described, is the ability to perform work. You can say that a beam of light posesses energy, or that the light's energy was transferred into heat when it struck an object, but "pure energy" is a misnomer popularized by science fiction.The answer, ICANT, is basically "we don't know what state matter was in in that barest fraction of a second, becasue our math stops working. We do know that matter and energy can't be created, we do know that the matter in the Universe does exist, we do know that it existed as a quark-gluon plasma after the unknown moment and before T=1810^-16, and we do know that the Universe is smaller as you approach T=0. You neglect to consider gravity, which is the major force in play at such scales, as well as the fact that all of the gravitational interactions even before stars formed and supernovae afterwards cause things to move in all manner of different direction. We've done computer models based on exactly this scenario, ICANT, and what we see is eerily close to what we observe in the Universe. There's been a lot of time for the cat to tangle this ball of string.The balloon model is relatively accurate. Not perfect, certainly, but it works for describing that space expands, not matter. It's your comprehension that is the problem, ICANT.

Ok, let's give this another try.Suppose we have a balloon that is already inflated. On the surface of the balloon there are hundreds of ants crawling around. The surface area of the balloon increases as the balloon itself continues to inflates. The general distances between the ants increase over time as the balloon continues to inflates. However, some ants will inevitably bump into each other.Added by edit.Small ants represent stars. Big ants represent galaxies. And if you want to get more specific, the parasites that reside on the ants represent planets and asteroids, and other planetary bodies. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Yes, you can have a Planck volume. There's not quite a google of them in a pea. If each volume has a string mode and that string mode has the Planck energy, then that's about 10^107 J. That pea has to contain the observable universe, which has a visible mass of about 10^52kg, so say a total mass of 10^54 to be safe, and that gives an energy of 10^71 J.Conclusion: our pea is actually rather uncramped...

Hi Paul, Son Goku told me Here
I am having a real problem here. Son says the whole universe was about the size of a pea.That means everything in the universe had to be in some form at the point Son is speaking about.Mass and energy can not be created so all the mass and energy had to be there in the form of Pure Energy.I was suggesting to Son HereSon was assuring me the universe was about the size of a pea.I am just trying to sort out what I thought I had learned here.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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I am having a real problem here. Son says the whole universe was about the size of a pea.

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That means everything in the universe had to be in some form at the point Son is speaking about.

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It certainly doesn't mean that there had to be stars there ! The mass/energy would have existed in exotic forms that can only exist under such extreme conditions.Which doesn't include normal matter.

But as we go back in time our pea becomes smaller and smaller. Going by your figures, the observable universe would still fit easily in something the size of a proton, but as we continue back in time we eventually progress to where each point in Planck space has the Planck energy. What then? Is this where current theory breaks down? Or is something else responsible?--Percy

Thanks Taz,That sounds a lot better. Although the ants would not be affected by the laws of physics.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Exactly, though 'current theory' will be highly modified well away from that scale, becoming more and more exotic as T=0 is approached.

Nice one, Taz. I always forget to the add the ants. Mind you, they will be VERY slow ants, or that balloon is bloody big...

Hi cavediver, How much gravitational pull would be necessary to suck the universe into something the size a of pea?God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If there is sufficient density in the Universe (and ignoring the cosmological constant) then the Universe will collapse back to something the size of a pea and beyond. In terms of 'gravitational pull' (which is highly misleading) then as the Universe starts shrinking, the matter in the Universe will be closer together and so the gravitational attraction will grow, this will cause the Universe to shrink further, and so the 'pull' grows yet more. There will be no difficulty shrinking the Universe in this scenario, it will be a runaway effect.

Hi ICANT, Alot...How much gravitational force do you think is beyond the event horizon of a black hole?After the Big Bang 90% of the nuclei were hydrogen(the rest was helium,), all other elements came after stars blew up into supernovas. All the matter that is present today in this universe was created after the first star was created so you don't need to imagine this universe compressed to the size of a pea.Now, how many hydrogen nuclei can you fit into a pea?

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All great truths begin as blasphemies

We always have to remember that the surface of the balloon represents space itself, not space and matter. Although I did get a laugh out of imagining a bunch of ants crawling around on the surface of a balloon.

As a thought experiment with my buddies back in the old days, we decided that the only conceivable way we could save the universe from flying apart and become a cold almost empty place is through time travel. We could start sending back in time stars... whole galaxies and whole clusters. Not too much, though. Just enough to create a balance between gravity and the universal expansion and eventually create a static universe. In such a universe, we would have untold trillions of years to come up with a way to deal with the eventual heat death.