Universe Race

Hi onifre, Makes more sense than: It came from an absence of anything.But I argued that in another thread.Here I am conceding a miniature universe to be in imaginary time. So if it is there I want to know what starts the process of expansion.This miniature universe sitting in imaginary time is doing nothing At T=O. There is no real time or real space here, only an absence of anything.At T=10^40 this miniature universe is expanding faster than the speed of light according to cavediver. Time, space, energy, and universe are here.So what brought on the change.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi ICANT, I don't remember reading anyone say "an absence of anything". I believe what is being said is that its unknown what there was at T=O or prior to that, let alone knowing if what there was was actually capable of being a cause for anything, but it must be since we are here. I believe the question of "what was prior to T=O" is beyond the realm of science...at the moment. Your still holding on to the literal sense of expantion, it is there where you need to change your way of thinking. If we are talking about a miniature universe in an imaginary time, then I would say you'd need to ask the person imagining it, maybe the laws of physics change completely in his/her imagination. As for our universe, there was no cause for the start because there was no start, it just is.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

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All great truths begin as blasphemies

There was no change. The expanssion was the initial state of the universe (Within the Big Bang model).ICANT, you need to understand that the Big Bang (or any other scientific model for that matter) does not rule out the possibility of a creator. But it cannot be used as evidence for a creator either. The Is-There-A-Creator question cannot be answered through science. It is a theological question.Science can be used to rule out some creation stories (For instance, we know there was no such thing as Adam or Eve or a global flood), but it cannot be used to rule out a creator all together.

Take out those ear plugs Dude !!!!!!! Intelligent design just simply can not be pushed under the rug. Ben Stein just recieved the 2008 Johnson Award which is about "Advancing Our Understanding of the Design in the Universe". Anthony Flew won the award in 2006 for his book their is a God.P.S. Ben Stein movie EXPELLED should be released next month?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGCxbhGaVfE++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Ben Stein Wins Johnson Award for EXPELLED ” press release
William DembskiIn his search for an answer, he discovers an elitist scientific establishment that punishes the scientific proponents of Intelligent Design because they reject some of the claims of Darwin’s theory of evolution.The award recognizes Johnson’s pivotal role in advancing our understanding of design in the universe by opening up informed dissent to Darwinian and materialistic theories of evolution. British philosopher Antony Flew, once considered the most prominent defender of atheism in the English-speaking world, became the second recipient of this award in 2006 for his Socratic approach of “following the evidence where it leads” and abandoning atheism on account of design arguments.Ben Stein Wins Johnson Award for EXPELLED — press release – Uncommon DescentEdited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

No, it pretty much crawls there all by itself until dragged out by people who don't understand science much.

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If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

No-one has told you that.Why, then, are you claiming that everyone has told you that?

In other news, the Flat Earth Society has chosen their Flat Earther of the Year.Giving one another awards won't actually validate their ideas, will it?

Ooooooh!!! An award for "Advancing our understanding of design in the universe" given out by an obscure evangelical Christian college!!!! No way!!!!!

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

Ha Ha !!!!!! Get your bible out Dude, The Word says the earth is round. Are you one of those darwianin flat earther dudes?I've not a problem if you think fabric of the universe is flat but if you think the earth flat you should read the akjv Bible, Dude !!!!!!!Enjoy !!!!!!!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/727073.stmP.S. Personally your Flat earthers society is what the movie EXELLED is all about, getting the word out. So you'll believe the earth is not flat, that that the Word says that God sits on throne in heaven on the circle of the earth, about the orbits of the earth around the sun, months days, years, zodiac stars repeat, etc...Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Wow! The "whoosh" as that joke went over johnfolton's head knocked me on my butt!Edited by Chiroptera, : wind -> "whoosh"Edited by Chiroptera, : typo in correction

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If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

Ok, "dude", the bible not only says the Earth is round, it specifically says the Earth is a circle in isaiah 40:22.Before you start saying "circle and sphere is the same thing" like I've heard so many christians try to rationalize this, give me an example of a 3 dimensional circle and I'll give you 50 cents.Added by edit.I, too, got a really good laugh out of the fact that that joke flew right over your head.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This thread needed some comic relief, but let's please return to the topic.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

In respect to the earth you have the moon sitting on the circle of the earth never showing her backside to the earth. You have the earth sitting on the circle of the sun and the sun sitting on the circle of the center of the milkey way. Since were talking a flat universe are we in agreement its a 3d circle (orbit) ?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++From Earth, you can only see one side of the Moon. The Moon now rotates once as it orbits the Earth, so that the same side (the same half of a sphere) always faces the Earth. So we on Earth see the near side, and the far side always faces away from us.http://www.windows.ucar.edu/...ink=/kids_space/darkside.html++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The moon is approximately 1500 miles cube just a bit bigger for its roundness which is kind of interesting if its hollow. akjv rev 21:16When Apollo VII dropped a lunar module the moon rang for approximately an hour like a hollow bell.P.S. I just don't see the galaxies orbiting anything however are they sitting instead of on a circle are they not sitting in space as space itself is expanding outward. Which is kind of interesting is it a 3D flat universe expansion (galaxies just sitting) ? Maybe time factored in rounds out the universe and your circle might not be just a 3D circle but a 4 dimensional circle ? if that is you could move forward or back in time and see the entire universe not just the present but the past present and future, and how everything sits within the universe, would the universe look like a sphere? Think all we can see is a flat 3D universe expansion !!!!!!!++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++When the Lunar module had taken off, heading back to earth the astronauts discarded the ascent stage of the lunar module, dropping it on the moons surface, smashing the craft and creating a tremor that was picked up by the seismometers and when the NASA scientists heard the data stream, they couldn’t believe what they were hearing.The moon was ringing like a bell and continued to do so for around an hour. After they had had a chance to analyse the seismological information, NASA declared that the moon seemed to be a hollow sphere with a metallic layer around 34-40 metres deep.News Results for 'moon' - Page 1 | Unexplained MysteriesEdited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.Edited by johnfolton, : Added one word "expansion" to the end of a statement to clarify the 3D flat universe is due to the expansion. But I hear you let others look at the other end of the expansion, etc...

Hi Johnfolton,The topic is the expanding universe.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Standard Big Bang theory:The Big Bang did not happen in the universe.
The Big Bang created the universe.
Universe emerged from a singularity at T=O.
Describes what happened from 0.0001 of a second after this moment of creation.
Temperature was 1,000 billion degrees Kelvin.
The density was that of nuclear matter, 1014 grams per cubic centimetre.Is this correct?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."