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Author | Topic: Importance of Original Sin | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
I use to refer to the site Rules but now I get "Selection Does not Exist."
I recall something about decorum and respectful language being in the rules years ago.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Just type in fg and put brackets around it. You will get this:
Forum Guidelines
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined:
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and yet, you offer not counter argument or evidence. where in the old testament does yahweh appear in a fluffy spiritual sense? every where i've read has him show up viscerally and powerfully: never read voices booming from the heavens or the mountains, or sometimes bodily, in front of moses and aaron, or at mamre to abraham, etc. the spiritual concept is newer, and old testament authors were trying to convince their readers that yahweh -- who lived in the temple -- was real. you couldn't see him because he was in the temple, not because he like, lived in our hearts or some other silly nonsense. You never read how God manifested Himself to the power accustomed prophet Elijah? He was not in the wind that broke the rocks in pieces.He was not in the fire. He was not in the earthquake. He was in the "still small voice." See First Kings 19:9-4. The prophet was use to God being only one way - dramatically overpowering. In the progressive revelation of God, God had to teach Elijah that God was also in the gentle, quiet voice of man's conscience. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Is that what you mean.
quote: Is there a point to your post? Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
I do click on links but I definitely do NOT click on YouTube. If you have a point, make it.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The audience at the sheep/goats discourse were Jews(Disciples, mainly) who had not yet been covered in the grace and gift of atonement given by the risen Christ. People are still judged the same way that they always were. We all are guilty...lofty jaywills and spare change ringos alike.
The difference is that now we have what you so disdainfully call a get out of hell free card. Jesus death,burial and resurrection made it possible for everyone. To claim that salvation is based on what we do is to cheapen the sacrifice that God made. Perhaps what concerns you is that some Christians will use the salvation excuse to do no good works, but I would imagine that good works will and should be cheerfully done....reward or not. What differentiates us is that you believe we must do good works and must earn our gift...whereas I believe that a gift is a gift...you can never earn it to begin with.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How did God make any kind of a sacrifice? If I could resurrect I'd be dying to help people a dozen times every day.
Jesus death,burial and resurrection made it possible for everyone. To claim that salvation is based on what we do is to cheapen the sacrifice that God made. Phat writes:
As I've mentioned before, you're the poster boy for that concern.
Perhaps what concerns you is that some Christians will use the salvation excuse to do no good works, but I would imagine that good works will and should be cheerfully done....reward or not. Phat writes:
Not quite. I believe that you have to use the gift for it to have any value. A bicycle wrapped up under the Christmas tree is not a gift. Its only value is in the riding of it. What differentiates us is that you believe we must do good works and must earn our gift...whereas I believe that a gift is a gift...you can never earn it to begin with. If you don't use your "salvation", you might as well not have it.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Is there a point to your post? My point was this reminder:
10. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics. Names will not be mentioned.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined:
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Dawn Bertot writes: What other word or words would you use to describe something that is non-physical in essence. There really are no other words besides those used what words did you just use? something like that.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Dawn Bertot writes: being created in Gods image, I think you know but will not admit, is more than Shape, form or appearance indeed, it is that semblance to god that causes yahweh to say, "now the man has become as one of us!"
Which is it more reasonable to assume, that Samuel had cease to exist, body and mind, then God brings him back into complete existence. This would be a cruel joke have ya met the old testament yahweh?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined:
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Dawn Bertot writes: "For when the Gentiles which have not the Law,do by nature the things contained in the Law, these having not the Law, are a law unto themself, they show the Work of the Law written in thier Hearts, there conscience also bearing witness and thier thoughs the meanwhile, accusing or excusing one another" sure. and abraham used this kind of law, the one written in his heart, to tell yahweh that he was about to commit an unjust act. remember, you have to understand that in judaism, the law is above god; it is a contract that binds both parties to their individual terms.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
jaywill writes: You never read how God manifested Himself to the power accustomed prophet Elijah? yes, and god apparently talks to people without being present many times.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
yes, and god apparently talks to people without being present many times.
God is omnipresent. The lesson, I think, He was teaching Elijah the prophet was that He was still mighty in ways quiet , intimate, very personal and subjective. We see this pictured elsewhere in the Holy Spirit symbolized as a dove.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So your question, which you invited me over here to consider, is how our inheritance of Adam's sin could be just and moral?
I suspect nothing anyone says about this will ever convince you, but the way I would put it is that it's a nature we inherited simply because we're made of the same stuff our parents Adam and Eve were made of. Basic principle of inheritance we all know about. Sin changed them, like it broke something in their DNA, and all their offspring get that broken DNA. Basic law of inheritance you see. I suppose God could have started all over creating a new Adam, but the thing is, any Adam would be vulnerable to committing sin and eventually would give in to it. It's only by being born in sin and then saved by grace that we are guaranteed a new nature that cannot sin again. Something to do with the nature of things.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: I suspect nothing anyone says about this will ever convince you Then your suspicions are wrong - I'm very easily convinced by good argument and good evidence.
Sin changed them, like it broke something in their DNA, and all their offspring get that broken DNA. Basic law of inheritance you see. That just verifies that all the descendants of Adam are being punished for his sin, which is immoral.
I suppose God could have started all over creating a new Adam, but the thing is, any Adam would be vulnerable to committing sin and eventually would give in to it. This says that god created a being that would inevitably fail according to his own standards. So he set Adam up to fail, then punished him when he did fail followed by all his descendants. Who is the greater sinner in this scenario?
It's only by being born in sin and then saved by grace that we are guaranteed a new nature that cannot sin again. Something to do with the nature of things. Read that again and see if it still makes sense to you, because it doesn't to me. Whatever happened to the concept of 'get it right first time'?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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