|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Multiculturalism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
My comment was not about Faith. It was about the person whose sermons she wanted me to listen to. Evidence shows my characterization of this guy, Ivan Foster, has merit.
I did not curse Faith or attack Faith. As an admin it is incumbent that you understand the context of posts. If not maybe you should step aside and let others moderate. Faiths attack is not even in reference to my comment you posted above.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Multiculturalists put cultural sensitivities before individual liberties; elevate the radical beliefs of a backwards religion above the principles of freedom and democracy.
quote: quote: quote: Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
No, that's an extreme effect of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is simply accepting that people from different backgrounds - race, religion, langugae, economic development, education etc - have differring views on the world and, if we are to live together there has to be tolerance by both sides of those views.
That only becomes a problem when one side is unable to tolerate - which is what is happening now. Some sectors of society on both sides of the argument are determined to push their positions to make their points and the real fundamentalists are exploiting it. There's no doubt at all that the extreme Islam position is not tolerable in our society, but we are not innocent of provocation and we are equally guilty of not explaining and enforcing our own values on immigrants wanting to enter our country, to the extent that we've actually encouraged practices that are against our own laws by ignoring them - FGM is an obvious example. We've been frightened of enforcing faster integration - or any integration at all. And then we had these stupid and unnecessary wars that made everything many, many times worse - what the hell were we thinking?.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There's no doubt at all that the extreme Islam position is not tolerable in our society, but we are not innocent of provocation and we are equally guilty of not explaining and enforcing our own values on immigrants wanting to enter our country, to the extent that we've actually encouraged practices that are against our own laws by ignoring them - FGM is an obvious example. We've been frightened of enforcing faster integration - or any integration at all. But what you've failed to understand is that Multiculturalism is NOT simply the assimilation of different cultures, it's in fact the philosophical perspective that REQUIRES the attitude you are here objecting to, that we give up our own values to encourage those of foreign cultures entering western societies. Those who do this are not "guilty of provocation" they are doing exactly what Multiculturalism teaches, perhaps believing the nave PC ideology that pretends all cultures and religions are basically the same. Multiculturalism is NOT the proverbial "melting pot" by which foreign cultures adapt to the host culture's laws and values while retaining their own cultural expressions that don't conflict with those values, it's one of the tenets of Political Correctness which comes out of Cultural Marxism and is aimed at undermining Western Civilization. Not requiring that the foreign culture adapt IS Multiculturalism. It's aimed against Western Civilization. It's aimed against the very rights and freedoms that have historically attracted foreigners. If you give rights and freedoms to a tyrannical creed you destroy those rights and freedoms. Nobody expects Muslim countries to absorb western values but the west is expected to absorb all kinds of alien values including Islam. Since Islam's values promote the subjugation of other cultures to Allah this is a recipe for suicide of the West. It sounds like you have the melting pot in mind. That's a time-honored position of the West, but you are confusing it with Multiculturalism. If you really understood what MC is you would probably oppose it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Sounds like a slippery slope argument
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Multiculturalism is NOT the proverbial "melting pot" by which foreign cultures adapt to the host culture's laws and values while retaining their own cultural expressions that don't conflict with those values, it's one of the tenets of Political Correctness which comes out of Cultural Marxism and is aimed at undermining Western Civilization. I'm sorry but could you possibly give us an example of a law or value that foreign cultures should adapt to but do not?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Not requiring that the foreign culture adapt IS Multiculturalism. It's aimed against Western Civilization. That's complete nonsense. The vast majority of immigrants to this country are from other Western Civilizations. Even Westerners have practices that people here complain about and express hatred towards. However it is primarily certain Western immigration that people are up in arms about. If anything, much of the fear about the change in culture I hear expressed, even from you is regards to the dilution of Anglo-Saxon Culture and not just Western culture.
That's a time-honored position of the West, Actually the time honored position of the United States is to treat newcomers with fear and loathing when they come here, so that initially the newcomers stay to themselves and practice their own ways. At some future point some immigrants are able to assimilate, maybe in about the third generation. Multiculturalism is not even limited to immigrants. The citizens of the United States are quite diverse and they don't give up all of their historical practices and ways to become citizens. Multiculturalism is the way we tolerate those differences. The "melting pot" where the host society does not change is a complete myth anyway. The host inevitably does change much to the chagrin of reactionaries. In a way, the white supremacists of the late 19th century had a point. The country they loved could not possibly stay the same after their slaves were freed and were granted citizenship and full rights.
Nobody expects Muslim countries to absorb western values but the west is expected to absorb all kinds of alien values including Islam. Name some Islamic values you've had to tolerate? I want actual examples of stuff you are forced to comply with because of the 2-3 million or so Muslims that live in this country.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
As usual Faith you've got pretty much all of this wrong.
There are important differences between multiculturalism, melting pots and assimilation - in fact all three are quite different ideas. There is absolutely no requirement to give up our values for multiculturalism - that's just your usual bigotry.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member
|
Multiculturalism is simply accepting that people from different backgrounds - race, religion, langugae, economic development, education etc - have differring views on the world and, if we are to live together there has to be tolerance by both sides of those views. Not all 'views on the world' are equal, and not allin fact very few of themshould be tolerated.
There's no doubt at all that the extreme Islam position is not tolerable in our society, but we are not innocent of provocation and we are equally guilty of not explaining and enforcing our own values on immigrants wanting to enter our country, to the extent that we've actually encouraged practices that are against our own laws by ignoring them - FGM is an obvious example. Well yeah. To say we are 'equally guilty of not explaining and enforcing our own values on immigrants wanting to enter our country, to the extent that we've actually encouraged practices that are against our own laws by ignoring them' is to say we are guilty of Multiculturalism.
And then we had these stupid and unnecessary wars that made everything many, many times worse - what the hell were we thinking?. What's the alternative?Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
I'm sorry but could you possibly give us an example of a law or value that foreign cultures should adapt to but do not? The value of non-tribalism:
quote: Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Then I guess you should watch your step.
Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
If anything, much of the fear about the change in culture I hear expressed, even from you is regards to the dilution of Anglo-Saxon Culture and not just Western culture. What Anglo-Saxon culture? The majority of European people in the U.S. are of German heritage. They speak a language descendant from a long-dead Anglo-Saxon dialect. They practice forms of government founded in Greece and Rome. Their religious beliefs have their origins in the Middle East with a long-haired, hippy Jew. The notion that we live in an Anglo-Saxon (or to use the pop-culture term WASP) culture is just sociologist buzzwording meant to sound intellectual and deep but in reality void of all meaning and usefulnessnot to mention false. Our culture is Western. And that's really the only sensible way to describe it.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jon writes: Well yeah. To say we are 'equally guilty of not explaining and enforcing our own values on immigrants wanting to enter our country, to the extent that we've actually encouraged practices that are against our own laws by ignoring them' is to say we are guilty of Multiculturalism. 'Guilty of multiculturalism' is a strange thing to say. Our countries have always allowed people from other countries to live in them - that's how they function and because we're liberal democracies we tolerate differing beliefs and practices - so long as those practices are legal. We've been naive in thinking that other cultures will adopt to our laws if we don't educate a enforce them.
Jon writes: What's the alternative? There isn't one. The only way would have been to close our borders at some arbitrary point in our histories and sink into obscurity.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
The majority of European people in the U.S. are of German heritage. Those number comes from the ethnic origins reported by people who even identify with a European group during the census. People who simply report themselves as American don't get counted. White Americans - Wikipedia
quote: In any event, the exact count or label is not all that important. We can find examples of minority culture, and particularly black and Latino culture stamped all over the current culture. (Happy Martin Luther King day by the way). The idea that our melting pot only works by having people adapt when they get here is hogwash. This country has never worked that way. Nor should it.
Our culture is Western. And that's really the only sensible way to describe it. More importantly, our culture reflects an amalgam of inputs from people who have immigrated here at various times. I'm not stuck on the label Anglo-Saxon, or WASP, but in the past, many people have been. ABE: In fact, the distinction between Western and Anglo-Saxon is more revealing of exactly how much this country has changed. Clearly the beginnings of our country were dominated by British influence. But we are not all that much like England anymore. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Jon writes:
All of those factors were filtered through a little place called "the British Isles".
What Anglo-Saxon culture? The majority of European people in the U.S. are of German heritage. They speak a language descendant from a long-dead Anglo-Saxon dialect. They practice forms of government founded in Greece and Rome. Their religious beliefs have their origins in the Middle East with a long-haired, hippy Jew.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024