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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Nylonase, fine tuning "This is the story of a pre-existing enzyme ... Can you tell me what enzyme is not pre-existing?
... which improved its activity toward nylon by first one, then another selectable mutation. In other words this is a completely plausible case of gene duplication, mutation, and selection operating on a pre-existing enzyme to improve a pre-existing low-level activity, ... Notice the complete acceptance of mutation and selection. Notice that the action of the enzyme was improved by the mutations, thereby demonstrating they are beneficial. Once again, in plain english, they accept selection of beneficial mutations as having occurred. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : ..by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Percy Member Posts: 22503 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Faith writes: Genetic diseases are a consequence of reduced genetic diversity but not inevitable. Down syndrome is an example of a genetic disease of increased genetic diversity. It's caused by an additional copy of chromosome 21 that occurs by chance. Marfan sydrome (connective tissue disorder) and Huntington's disease are more genetic diseases of increased genetic diversity. They can be inherited or caused by chance mutation. --Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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It is the theory of evolution that relies on the gain of copious quantities of genetic information. ... Curiously that is a creationist claim, and a falsehood. The theory of evolution could not give squat about "copious quantities of genetic information" -- just mutation and selection, things we see occurring every day. In addition, your reference to "copious quantities of genetic information" means nothing until you can measure and quantify "information" and actually show increases and decreases. That's one of the ways we know that evolution science doesn't care about it. The other reason is that evolution appears to work very well without any measurement of pseudo-parameters like "information" -- just what actually happens. So evolution is about mutations and selection, selection of mutations that are beneficial (like the lactase mutation and the nylonase mutation), where selection of beneficial mutations occurs because they improve survival or reproduction. I am wondering why you are presenting examples of mutations and their selection on a thread titled "Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection' " ... unless you are following bluegenes suggestion of posting examples of selection occurring. In which case, good job, these are good examples. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Babies were born as is, since their creation.....
The Lord or if you like their designer designed them to be able to process mothers milk because it is BY FAR the best for them including the amazing abilities after giving birth, that makes mothers milk absolutely important and vital rather than cow milk and its economic profit from manufacturers..... Its by design.... no mutation put all those ingeedients in a mothers milk, to help her new born. Please study and learn about procreation and the miracle of birth and mothers milk. No mutation has ever taken place, we still are the same as in the BEGINNING. Yes, GMOS etc from man are screwing up people after birth for economic sake of the rich and powerful. But no mutation has ever taken place that makes cows milk more beneficial than a mothers milk. No selection process has taken place..... no mutations have been induced by the environment as we have already determined that beneficial or harmful mutations are not induced, and are suppsoedly only at random. We cant change horses in mid stream with every new thread and discount old truths we have already established HERE. We need to be consistent, and have principles.... not flip flop with every new responses or responses. The god of selection is dead, because no beneficial mutations have ever occured by chance or by non random selection. She is dead, and beneficial mutations never existed Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The God of Selection is only alive and selecting if she has beneficial mutations to select from. If there are no benefical mutations and this lie of evolution is realised and admitted, it means the 'God of Selection' can not select from beneficial mutations. Because of her death and non existence, it means she can NOT let some of them live, via her divine selective process using her divine environmental conditions...... So still no logic or evidence to debunk selection ... just more empty assertions. Fail. Loser. Still no reply to the issues presented to you of actual examples of actual selection. Fail. Loser.
Without beneficial mutations, she dies and is no more, and evolutionists can no longer honor her and pretend she is non random and alive. Still no reply to the issues presented to you of actual examples of beneficial mutations. Fail. Loser.
And HEREIN we aren't allowed in Propose New Topics to write about the Proofs of benefical mutations existing' Nope. As clearly stated by Admin your topics are not going to be promoted because you have yet to show any response to the issues, the information, and the evidence that has been raised in this and other threads, to show any errors or mistakes in those posts. Replying to a posts with more empty assertion is not a response if it ignores and does not discuss the issues and evidence raised in those posts. Once again, you lose. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2271 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
There are several mutations are cause a loss of genetic information but which have a net benefit in particular circumstance. Lactose tolerance is one. So are many cases of antibiotic and insecticide resistance. So to some extent is sickle cell trait.
Since the lactase mutation has disabled part of the regulatory system it is information losing even if it is beneficial; or more correctly it has a net benefit. It is detrimental where there is no access to dairy products which explains why there is a close correlation between dairying and adult lactose tolerance. Evolution by losing genetic information is downhill and would be a valid argument if you are saying that bacteria evolved from people but it doesn't work if you propose that people evolved from bacteria. If all you can see is the benefit without also counting the cost then you have a naive view of evolution. It wasn't Creation.com that was being criticised, it was Discovery Institute. It's not an appeal to authority to simply reference an article on someones website. It is an ad hominem attack to not assess the referenced article because it is on a website you don't approve of. If that is acceptable then I could equally refuse to accept references to talk origins or other sites I don't agree with. I don't do that. I read the article and respond on its merits. I would expect others to do the same. So only after you have read the referenced articles, try again.
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
So tell us and explain to us, evolutionists how todays babies are different than babies in the past.
Tell us what new beneficial mutations have occured in babies that have been selected by your god of selection, that makes new babies genetically different than old babies or the original human babies. Dont be afraid just explain yourself, you are in your congregation, so have faith and speak up... and testify about the changes. Thanks I am hoping to hear from you, and hoping you dont run from this question as per usual.. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Babies were born as is, since their creation..... An assertion of your personal belief with no supporting evidence provided. Irrelevant to the topic. Fail.
The Lord or if you like their designer designed them ... Davidjay Message 1: PS) But lets stick totally to biology and science, and maybe math rather than allowing their religious views to enter IN. Thanks Sad that you can't even comply with your own provisions, to say nothing about complying with forum guidelines (such as Rule 4: Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.)
... able to process mothers milk because it is BY FAR the best for them including the amazing abilities after giving birth, that makes mothers milk absolutely important and vital rather than cow milk and its economic profit from manufacturers..... Its by design.... no mutation put all those ingeedients in a mothers milk, to help her new born. Please study and learn about procreation and the miracle of birth and mothers milk. Curiously, nobody has said otherwise. This is just you going off on a tangent instead of dealing with the evidence for selection and beneficial mutations. This is how losers fail.
No mutation has ever taken place, we still are the same as in the BEGINNING. This is actually false on a couple of levels. First the lactase mutation has been identified and it's selection and spread in the general population has even been mapped. Second your body is undergoing a general process of cell replacement over time, such that you have a new skin every 3 years or so, and other parts every 10 years or so. In the process of cell replication mutations often occur, and this is a source of cancers and other changes.
quote: Mutations found, documented, identified in different populations, selection for the beneficial mutation is documented in the spread of the gene through much of the general population. Rather than dead and debunked, the process of mutation and selection is alive and well, operating every day. You Lose.
No selection process has taken place..... no mutations have been induced by the environment as we have already determined that beneficial or harmful mutations are not induced, and are suppsoedly only at random. Except that the evidence shows, from this and other examples presented on this thread, that selection is happening all around us, continually. Rather than dead and debunked, the process of mutation and selection is alive and well, operating every day. You Lose.
Yes, GMOS etc from man are screwing up people after birth for economic sake of the rich and powerful. But no mutation has ever taken place that makes cows milk more beneficial than a mothers milk. We cant change horses in mid stream with every new thread and discount old truths we have already established HERE. We need to be consistent, and have principles.... not flip flop with every new responses or responses. The god of selection is dead, because no beneficial mutations have ever occured by chance or by non random selection. She is dead, and beneficial mutations never existed More meaningless garbage designed to deflect the discussion than to answer the issues of mutations and selection being observed and documented. GIGO and spam. Rather than dead and debunked, the process of mutation and selection is alive and well, operating every day. You Lose. You have yet to provide any evidence that would debunk selection, all you do is repeat empty unevidenced assertions of your personal opinions. That is not complying with rule 4 that I can see -- can you explain how it does? Here it is again:
quote: You have failed to provide "reasoned support" your thesis with a single piece of evidence (to say nothing of "additional evidence" ...) in 37 posts so far on this thread. One would think that anyone starting a thread would have objective empirical evidence to substantiate it ... at least in this science forum. Epic failure. Loser. All you have is assertions and repetition, not evidence. You Lose. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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CRR writes: Darwin used many examples of animal breeding to support his arguments for natural selection. Since humans are part of nature then deliberate selection by humans is a form of natural selection. Darwin's point was that there was a natural process that existed outside of human influence that had been operating on species for millions of years which was his explanation for why species were different from each other.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
CRR writes: Mutations can be selected for and fixed in populations . . . It would appear that you accept natural selection, correct?
. . . but are they information adding? That is completely irrelevant to the field of biology and the theory of evolution. What I have found is that the process of evolution can produce all of the biodiversity we see today from a universal common ancestor without needing to increase information as defined by creationists. All you guys do is define information in such a way that evolution doesn't need to produce it. It's a bit like someone saying that a baseball has to travel 1,000 feet before it is considered a home run, all the while forgetting that all it has to do is get over the fence.
Human adult lactose tolerance is an example of a mutation that has spread but has not increased genetic information. Then evolution doesn't need to increase information as you define it in order to produce the biodiversity we see today. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
CRR writes: All mammals are born lactose tolerant so they can digest their mother's milk. This normally switches off after weaning. Human adult lactose tolerance is simply a case of a broken switch. Lactose intolerance - creation.com. Then broken switches, as you define it, can result in evolution.
"This is the story of a pre-existing enzyme with a low level of promiscuous nylonase activity, which improved its activity toward nylon by first one, then another selectable mutation. In other words this is a completely plausible case of gene duplication, mutation, and selection operating on a pre-existing enzyme to improve a pre-existing low-level activity, exactly the kind of event that Meyer and Axe specifically acknowledge as a possibility, given the time and probabilistic resources available. Indeed, the origin of nylonase actually provides a nice example of the optimization of a pre-existing fold’s function, not the innovation or creation of a novel fold." https://www.evolutionnews.org/...agination-and-facts-collide Then evolution doesn't need novel folds for every adaptations. Thanks for yet another example of evolution in action.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
CRR writes: There are several mutations are cause a loss of genetic information but which have a net benefit in particular circumstance. Lactose tolerance is one. So are many cases of antibiotic and insecticide resistance. So to some extent is sickle cell trait. Then this means that evolution can occur with losses in genetic information, as you define it. So much for needing an increase in genetic information.
Evolution by losing genetic information is downhill and would be a valid argument if you are saying that bacteria evolved from people but it doesn't work if you propose that people evolved from bacteria. You would also argue that human evolution went downhill as it proceeded from our ancestor shared with chimps. Evolution can also occur while going downhill, as you define it. You can't seem to understand that you are just defining yourself out of the argument.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Babies were born as is, since their creation..... The Lord or if you like their designer designed them to be able to process mothers milk because it is BY FAR the best for them including the amazing abilities after giving birth, that makes mothers milk absolutely important and vital rather than cow milk and its economic profit from manufacturers..... Its by design.... no mutation put all those ingeedients in a mothers milk, to help her new born. Please study and learn about procreation and the miracle of birth and mothers milk. No mutation has ever taken place, we still are the same as in the BEGINNING. Yes, GMOS etc from man are screwing up people after birth for economic sake of the rich and powerful. But no mutation has ever taken place that makes cows milk more beneficial than a mothers milk. No selection process has taken place..... no mutations have been induced by the environment as we have already determined that beneficial or harmful mutations are not induced, and are suppsoedly only at random. We cant change horses in mid stream with every new thread and discount old truths we have already established HERE. We need to be consistent, and have principles.... not flip flop with every new responses or responses. The god of selection is dead, because no beneficial mutations have ever occured by chance or by non random selection. She is dead, and beneficial mutations never existed
Still not a single coherent argument against natural selection. Go figure.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
There are several mutations are cause a loss of genetic information ... How do you know? How is that "information" measured and quantified?
So only after you have read the referenced articles, try again. Or you could read Irreducible Complexity, Information Loss and Barry Hall's experiments and get back to me. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Davidjay writes: So tell us and explain to us, evolutionists how todays babies are different than babies in the past.Tell us what new beneficial mutations have occured in babies that have been selected by your god of selection, that makes new babies genetically different than old babies or the original human babies. Dont be afraid just explain yourself, you are in your congregation, so have faith and speak up... and testify about the changes. Thanks I am hoping to hear from you, and hoping you dont run from this question as per usual.
Tell us why you think we find black mice in areas with black lava rocks and brown mice in areas with brown desert dirt.
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