Vapour canopy and fountains of the deep

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On top of the already highly elevated climate from the hothouse created by the "vapor canopy"Greenhouse gas - Wikipedia

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Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 66% [2].

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Looks like a lot of heat (must have something to do with thermodynamics)Enjoy.

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the vapor canopy has been raised again ...Can any creationists support this concept?Enjoy.

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Rebel American Zen Deist
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Hi Peg, Does the bible actually say this verbatim or is this just an assumption that people have made?Certainly there is water on other planets in the solar system, and in space, and I would not be surprised to find that the amount of water on the earth NOW is less than 1% of the water in the universe. Again, there is water on other planets in the solar system, and in space, and I would not be surprised to find that the amount of water on the earth NOW is less than 1% of the water in the universe.Strangely, I see no evidence of water being in a "canopy" around the earth, as there are plenty of places in the rest of the universe for the divided waters to exist without needing a single drop in any canopy. To say there is water in space is one thing, to say it was formed in a canopy needs a specific reference to that effect, otherwise it is just speculation, conjecture, fiction. Ummm, where was that again? Where the term "canopy" was actually used? Curiously, we are looking at global warming producing an earth with a "gorgeous warm climate" using only a little increase in cloud cover. Increasing the volume of water above that creates lethal conditions for many organisms, including humans (look at the increase in deaths during any heat wave in any country now). Interestingly, they also found that the shape of the continents at that time was significantly different, and that there location relative to the axis of rotation was significantly different -- enough so that the conditions on Ellesmere Island (where Tiktaalik was found) are readily explained with today's climate in similar places relative to the axis of rotation today. No need for any "gorgeous warming" to explain those conditions.The real question for creationists is why would a "vapor canopy" be necessary in order to produce a flood?To get enough water into the atmosphere to make a significant contribution to any flood that could raise the level of water world wide would create temperatures on earth like those that currently exist on Venus.To make such conditions livable takes a wave of the "god-did-it" magic wand, in which case you can invoke that instead of the water canopy and save everyone some time.Enjoy.

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Hi ICANT, Exactly. As I've noted before in these discussions, that it is silly to argue that a flood could not have occurred. The real question is whether there is evidence that this was the case -- evidence in particular that is compatible with the duration of the WW flood story.So I take it that you join in telling (other) creationists that the water vapor concept is unnecessary and a rather silly distraction from some real questions.Like how old the earth really is, and how life developed. Curiously, those are topics for another thread.Enjoy.

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Hi bluescat48 It doesn't have to say it occurred for it to be possible. The possibility that it could do so is sufficient to make the concept of a water vapor canopy unnecessary and irrelevant, and that is the crux of this thread: for creationists to show that is some kind of rational reason for making this conjectural construct, especially when it creates more problems while solving none.Enjoy.

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Hi Trev777, and welcome to the fray. And leave absolutely no evidence that any such flood occurred, while at the same time leaving behind undisturbed evidence of a continuous stream of life millions of years old.Please note that this is a thread in the SCIENCE forum, and that one of the conditions of this thread is that one provide evidence to support any assertions.In my opinion all you have here is a compilation of ad hoc concepts with no evidence to back it up. Yes, and the level of oxygen has varied quite a bit in the present as well:Oxygen and Air Pollution

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Analysis of air bubbles trapped in fossils, such as in fossil amber, show that our air in earliest times contained about 35% oxygen. Today, the average oxygen content of our air is approximately 20%. In some larger, more polluted cities, oxygen content in the air has been measured at 12 - 15%. Anything less than 7% is not able to support human life.

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The proportion of free oxygen in the atmosphere is related to the proportion of all other gases in the atmosphere -- including CO₂, which has been rising since the time when the amber samples were made.There was also a time in the past when there was very little free oxygen in the atmosphere, and the oxygen we have is due to life forms producing free oxygen from compounds, and they actually changed the ecology of the planet.Great Oxidation Event - Wikipedia

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The Oxygen Catastrophe was a massive environmental change believed to have happened during the Siderian period at the beginning of the Paleoproterozoic era of the Precambrian, about 2.4 billion years ago. It is also called the Oxygen Crisis, Oxygen Revolution, or The Great Oxidation.

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This explanation proposes a system with two steady states, one with lower (0.02%) atmospheric oxygen content, and the other with higher (21% or more) oxygen content. The Great Oxidation can then be understood as a switch between lower and upper stable steady states.[4]

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SO how does your model explain the time when there was 0.02% atmospheric oxygen? What were the health effects then?Note: Fluid inclusion - Wikipedia

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Trapped bubbles of air and water within fossil amber can be analyzed to provide direct evidence of the climate conditions existing when the resin or tree sap formed. The analysis of these trapped bubbles of air provides a record of atmosphere composition going back 140 million years. The data indicate that the oxygen content of the atmosphere reached a high of nearly 35% during the Cretaceous Period and then plummeted to near present levels during the early Tertiary [1]. The abrupt decline corresponds to or closely follows the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event and may be the result of a major meteorite impact that created the Chicxulub Crater.

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Thus there is no need to invoke a vapor barrier to get up to 35% oxygen in the atmosphere. As a result, the existence of 35% oxygen in the atmosphere in the past is not evidence that there ever was a vapor canopy. You do realize, don't you, that at this elevation there are very few molecules in a cubic volume of space compared to on earth, and that superheated steam would also be very expanded in volume. The problem you have then is not only to accumulate non-lethal water from such a zone, but to gather enough to make a significant dent on the earth's surface. A couple of inches of boiling water don't make much of a flood. Curiously, we don't see people making health spas to simulate these conditions ... any idea why? How do you prevent this from happening? Do you realize that the expansion and contraction of the atmosphere from night to day and back to night would cause wind to blow constantly as the earth rotated? Do you realize that one of the major predictions of global warming is more frequent and more ferocious storms? Do you know what the surface wind is like on Venus?Making up stuff does not make a concept valid. Making up more stuff to support a made up comment just gets silly. Perhaps this thread will make you think about your concepts a little more.Enjoy.

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see Alvarez hypothesis - Wikipedia
and Fluid inclusion - WikipediaIt looks like 35% is possible. I don't think this is a point worth arguing, as there has been a clear trend from low oxygen content to high content, higher than today, before reducing to today's levels.The problem for Trev777 is to explain the low levels along with the high levels in order to have an explanation consistent with ALL the evidence. Otherwise we're just dealing with confirmation bias and evidence cherry-picking.Enjoy.Edited by RAZD, : .

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Hi Rahvin, I note that this is not about the vapor canopy, nor the fountains of the deep.I note, for the record, that it is possible for the amount of water on earth to cover the planet, and that arguing about the shape of the planet at the time, with people who claim the flood transformed the shape of the earth, is essentially a pointless head-banging exercise.Additionally, I note that this god in theory involves a supernatural entity that makes the water part so Moses et al can cross the red sea, so making the water flow up and over the current surface of the earth would also be within his capabilities.The problem is not the possibility of the water covering the earth, but the (lack of) evidence that it occurred.The problem for Trev777 is that such a possibility renders the concept of the vapor canopy pointless.Enjoy.

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