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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
Faith
Member
Posts: 25777
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 646 of 710 (801744)
03-09-2017 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by Genomicus
03-09-2017 11:52 AM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
The only link you could be talking about goes to a page of data from a year later than his article. Apparently the first link is buried or lost.

http://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean


This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Genomicus, posted 03-09-2017 11:52 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by Genomicus, posted 03-09-2017 12:14 PM Faith has responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 647 of 710 (801746)
03-09-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 642 by Faith
03-09-2017 11:41 AM


Re: More evidence of the horrors in Europe for you all to deny
I doubt there are Christian rightwing problems but show me if you want.

I already showed you: that video of a violent mob of right-wing Christians disrupting a peaceful gay pride event with rocks and bricks. That's evidence that Europe is getting crushed -- absolutely crushed -- by an internal invasion of radical right-wing Christians.

The other one still looks like an attack on the tree to me, they are pulling things off it.

That's how you take decorations off a tree in a post-Christmas celebration: you pull things off.

Go to the Snopes article. See the first image there. You'll find at least one of the individuals in the crowd wearing a Christmas hat (Santa hat).

Then, if you still think your propaganda boys are right -- that this is happening in Europe, instead of Cairo -- I'm sure you'll be able to dig up the original video to prove this point. Right?

Just kidding.

You're not willing to put in that kind of work to determine if you're being fed propaganda.

The first video of the Chrismas tree was apparently quite true, the burning of the tree in Bruseels after they pushed a car down what, an escalator, and they were Muslims, but that one doesn't interest you for some reason.

I'm not interested in a hastily-put-together YouTube video that uses unsourced clips shown to be irrelevant (e.g., from Cairo). That's propaganda. If I used that kind of sloppy approach in academic research, people would be like "LOL you're not serious are you??"

Ridiculous, it's perfectly obvious there is a huge Muslim problem in Europe, but oh well.

If it's "perfectly obvious" you should be able to do better than linking to weird YouTube videos and clickbait headlines.

Edited by Genomicus, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 11:41 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 12:08 PM Genomicus has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25777
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 648 of 710 (801747)
03-09-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Genomicus
03-09-2017 12:03 PM


Re: More evidence of the horrors in Europe for you all to deny
You've got ONE event of "Christians" (It isn't only Christians who have a problem with gay parades) - ONE example, in Serbia, and you inflate that to Europe being "absolutely crushed" by rightwing Christians? Golly gosh what absolutely convincing scientifically exacting evidence you have.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Genomicus, posted 03-09-2017 12:03 PM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by Genomicus, posted 03-09-2017 12:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 649 of 710 (801750)
03-09-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Faith
03-09-2017 11:57 AM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
The only link you could be talking about goes to a page of data from a year later than his article. Apparently the first link is buried or lost.

Luckily, there's the Wayback Machine, which archives deleted or unindexed pages. See here:

https://web.archive.org/...cr.org/mediterranean/regional.php

Look at all the documents on demographic data, specifically related to gender break downs. This is from April 4, 2016, and prior to that date. None of them suggest that 75% of the refugees are male. Your friends at JihadWatch don't know how to research.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 11:57 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 12:21 PM Genomicus has responded

  
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 650 of 710 (801752)
03-09-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Faith
03-09-2017 12:08 PM


Re: More evidence of the horrors in Europe for you all to deny
You've got ONE event of "Christians" (It isn't only Christians who have a problem with gay parades) - ONE example, in Serbia, and you inflate that to Europe being "absolutely crushed" by rightwing Christians? Golly gosh what absolutely convincing scientifically exacting evidence you have.

And the light bulb turns on.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 12:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25777
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 651 of 710 (801754)
03-09-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 649 by Genomicus
03-09-2017 12:14 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
I'd suspect the UN before I'd suspect Jihad Watch. He can't possibly have put up a wrong link, no way.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by Genomicus, posted 03-09-2017 12:14 PM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by Genomicus, posted 03-09-2017 12:23 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 652 of 710 (801755)
03-09-2017 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 651 by Faith
03-09-2017 12:21 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
I'd suspect the UN before I'd suspect Jihad Watch. He can't possibly have put up a wrong link, no way.

Except that the kid linked to the UN. And if you look at the page he linked to, using the Wayback Machine, you'll see that this "75% are male" nonsense isn't validated by the demographic/gender breakdowns in the documents there.

Next up: Faith Argues that the Wayback Machine is a Cultural Marxist Conspiracy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 12:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1322
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 653 of 710 (801760)
03-09-2017 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 641 by Faith
03-09-2017 11:35 AM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
I knew it would be denied. Since the MSM won't report this stuff and the European press is also disposed to ignore and deny it, the only sources are such as Jihad Watch and the rest of us who care about it. If all you will accept are the MSM then I guess you'll just dismiss anything I can come up with.

But that's not the case. The European press never shuts up about this stuff. They bang on and on and on, which is part of the problem.

There was something of a scandal here last year when it emerged that the editors of Prima TV; one of our major news stations; had instructed their news reporters and writers that they were required to report negatively about refugees, and to present them as a threat, if they wanted to keep their jobs (anyone watching Prima news would have already known that was the case, but someone took the time to leak a recording to prove it).

This is how Lubos Jetmar, the vice-president of one of our largest TV companies, explained the refugee crisis to his staff in a meeting in which they also explained they were required to stick to the editorial line in news reporting:

Nevertheless, I don't know who among you has ever lived in an Arab country. I have [inaudible]. As far as I am aware, Jitka has been to Somalia and I have been [inaudible]. If you experience it for yourself, then you ascertain that you basically can talk about our values, about democracy and stuff like that, for as long as you want, but because the development there has been different, and those millenia of ancestral and tribal traditions, their stance toward [inaudible] male and female sex is absolutely different. They just don't grasp what we say to them. Either they don't want to grasp it, or they don't grasp it. Now I'm speaking from my own experience, from the interviews we did there. They mainly insist that their values are correct. They're not willing to accept that ours exist [inaudible]. What is happening now is... in Libya a million other refugees are waiting for somebody to bring them to Europe. Once they are here and once there are a lot of them, then they will have the tendency to actually, really advocate for their truth, their vision of the world, their religion, their rules. To tell you the truth, I don't know if any of you would want to live to see that - I don't know how old your children are, but I have a nine-year-old girl, and I wouldn't want her to have to wear a burka in 20 years, once she's 30, and to have no rights whatsoever. I really don't. Naturally, I'm aware that the refugees who are [inaudible] are victims and we should aid them. However, on the other hand, what is in that article is also true, that the state is not fulfilling its function, and the state is here to defend its borders and protect [inaudible]. At this moment, that is what the European Union should do and protect Schengen. However, we're just concerned that there can be a much bigger problem arising from this than we are aware of today. For the time being there are a couple hundred thousand of them here, maybe a million, I don't know, but in the moment when there will be many of them here, then they actually won't respect our rules. You all know yourselves that if you go to Saudi Arabia, it doesn't exist that you'd go outside without covering your face. That's what they will advocate here. They will want us to [inaudible]

Your view that Muslim immigrants are an existential threat to Europe is not hidden by some vast conspiracy of the mainstream press. It's openly advocated by much of that press - this is why it's believed by so many people who've never even seen a Muslim immigrant.

ABE - the above quote is of course a translation - he didn't say it in English.

Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 11:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 654 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 1:18 PM caffeine has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25777
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 654 of 710 (801761)
03-09-2017 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 653 by caffeine
03-09-2017 1:06 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
I'd like to think that's common in Europe because the impression I get is that Europe is politically correct to the point of suicidal.

If that message is so common in Europe how come I can't get anyone to agree there's a problem or that anyone in Europe even thinks there is a problem? How come so many national leaders in Europe deny there is a problem? That shows up in my videos along with all the pictures of Muslim violence.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 653 by caffeine, posted 03-09-2017 1:06 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by PaulK, posted 03-09-2017 1:39 PM Faith has responded
 Message 657 by caffeine, posted 03-09-2017 1:46 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 662 by Son Goku, posted 03-09-2017 3:50 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12956
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 655 of 710 (801763)
03-09-2017 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by Faith
03-09-2017 1:18 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
People don't say that there aren't problems. People say that the problems are much smaller than your videos claim, mostly aren't special to Muslims (and even one of the videos you posted showed us a mosque of peaceful praying Muslims without the slightest hint that THEY were a problem) - and we can live with them.

And given the number of problems with your videos that have come up, surely you ought to realise that they are not reliable. Which is a major reason why they are not convincing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 1:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 1:44 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25777
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 656 of 710 (801764)
03-09-2017 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 655 by PaulK
03-09-2017 1:39 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
Gosh, peaceful Muslims at prayer. You have no clue. The evidence is out there, Islam has been exposed over and over and over and still you have no clue.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by PaulK, posted 03-09-2017 1:39 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 658 by PaulK, posted 03-09-2017 1:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1322
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 657 of 710 (801765)
03-09-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by Faith
03-09-2017 1:18 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
I'd like to think that's common in Europe because the impression I get is that Europe is politically correct to the point of suicidal.

If that message is so common in Europe how come I can't get anyone to agree there's a problem or that anyone in Europe even thinks there is a problem? How come so many national leaders in Europe deny there is a problem? That shows up in my videos along with all the pictures of Muslim violence.

I can't speak for others, but I don't think anyone is denying that people in Europe think there is a problem. A lot of what you post comes from right-wing European sources, after all. If the reason you keep posting it is because you think everyone is denying that such sources exist then you're arguing past each other.

And nobody denies that there are problems, especially not national leaders. You've already posted several headlines about Orban, the nationalist prime minister of Hungary who is virulently anti-Muslim. Our President is of a similar, though less extreme, mindset (he's a big fan of Donald Trump). We just don't agree on what the problems are; nor where we do on how to solve them. I don't think there's a rape epidemic by refugees; but many do, because (in my opinion) of news sources like Prima who agree with your views about Muslims and select their stories and their focus on trying to spread that fear.

Isn't this exactly the sort of behaviour you were referring to as 'fake' earlier in the thread? Picking the facts you choose to mention and skewing the interpretations to fit a particular viewpoint? That's precisely what the horror stories about Muslims in the press that so many of your videos are based in are doing. Immediately prior to explaining why he thought Muslims are a problem in the previous quote I posted Jetmar reminded his staff:

quote:
You are working in the newsroom of a television channel that is a rather influential, strong media outlet and we influence majority opinion in this country.

You influence public opinion and it's your job to report in a way that makes people afraid of Muslims immigrants. Is that fake news, then?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 1:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12956
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 658 of 710 (801766)
03-09-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 656 by Faith
03-09-2017 1:44 PM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
The point - which should be obvious - is that your videos do not necessarily show the message you want to convey. And if you don't notice that before posting the videos what else have you missed ?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 1:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6121
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 659 of 710 (801781)
03-09-2017 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 639 by Faith
03-09-2017 11:06 AM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
Faith writes:

quote:
The Muslim Migrant Invasion and the Collapse of Europe

Jihad Watch is not a source.

For example, that story about the rape of a 15-year-old on a student cruise in Sweden? It's fake. Well, technically it isn't fake, but you neglected to tell the entire story.

Specifically, the case was dismissed. Controversially, I should add, but it was dismissed.

How many times do you need to be burned by your "sources" before you realize that they are lying to you and you should stop referring to them?

And you still haven't answered my question, Faith:

What percentage of the European population (assume the European Union) is Muslim?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 639 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 11:06 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6121
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 660 of 710 (801782)
03-09-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 641 by Faith
03-09-2017 11:35 AM


Re: Some more evidence of Muslim problem in Europe you can all deny
Faith writes:

quote:
I knew it would be denied. Since the MSM won't report this stuff

Incorrect. It was reported on. That's why we know that your "source" is lying to you. Jihad Watch is not a source, Faith.

To go back to that cruise/rape example:

Teenagers walk free in Swedish ferry 'rape' case

That's from a Swedish news source, Faith.

Now, we know you don't actually do any homework on anything before you open your yap, but it would behoove you to actually do some digging before blindly accepting what someone who you have been directly shown to be a liar tells you.

How many times do you need to be burned before you learn?

And you still haven't answered my question, Faith:

What percentage of the European population (assume the European Union) is Muslim?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by Faith, posted 03-09-2017 11:35 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
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