Fulfilled Prophecy

Jar, you are the one who falsely fingered me for diminishing from the Bible and continually makes personal slanders that I am blaspheming the Holy Spirit, et al. This is leading off topic but since you are continuing to malign my integrity I will submit this one post to back my contention that it is you and not buz who diminishes from the Biblical record. You will get no apologies or retractions from me so you needn't waste your time and thread bandwith shouting demands for them. Btw, labeling Jesus's miracles as tales is tantamount denying them as actual events. You contradict yourself when you say the life death and resurrection of Jesus is likely true but label Biblical events in his life as tales.The following evidence shows that you either outright state or imply that much of the Bible is essentially a hoax and a lie since it claims to be truth and not "tales, folklore" and "fables" as you claim.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

My apologies for interrupting the thread with personal stuff, but I couldn't let the original charges that started this of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and diminishing the Bible stand. To me these charges were extremely serious. Thanks for the words of advice to us both. I hope we can move on to focus on the topic debate.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

All you need do is check out items preceeding Nahum 2:3-4 which I have cited, having never yet been fulfilled, most of which do not directly apply to Nineveh. They are like introduction background leading up to 2:8. As I've stated, This sort of ambiguity is often encountered in the study of Biblical prophecy but the more you study the prophecies, the more you recognize corroborating events which work to complete the picture the artist is painting so to speak.Yes it states in the beginning of the book that it's Oracles of Ninevah, but objectively read what is said and you see when Ninevah is directly addressed. Of course it is but if you refuse to acknowledge the facts I've stated I can't waste my time repeating them.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

My apologies to all for my lack of participation since my last post. I was very busy Friday and out of town all day today at church this AM and with relatives the rest of the day. (Sabbath/7th)As NJ has correctly stated, I have never claimed to have the gift of prophecy. I have addressed the prophecies of Biblical prophets who had the gift of prophecy proven by the fact that the fulfilled prophecies applicable to times prior to the present were fulfilled as prophesied, such as the re-emergence of the nation of Israel with the return of the Jews, still identifiable as Jews after 19+ centuries of world dispersion and sometimes severe persecution, imo a super empirical miracle. Though I hoped not to get stonewalled on one of the less significant prophecies, I guess since some folks seem to have a reading comprehension problem we'll need to delve into some specifics of the prophecy. I thought I had made it clear that prophesied events obviously pertaining to end time events prophesied in the book of Revelation, et al preceeded the prophecy in question of speedy wheeled vehicles speeding (as observed in horse and chariot days) and crashing in the streets. http://www.waronline.org/en/IDF/arms/merkava.htm - 25k -Granted, verse one states that the ultimate primary focus of the prophecy is on Nineveh. However, as I've stated before, if one studiously seeks to master the prophetic books of the Bible, one discovers that one must be cognisant of the fact that segues of prophecy pertaining to the end time often accompany prophecies applicable to more contemporaneous fulfillment. Space does not permit it for this thread but I could site numerous incidences of this.Analysis of high points of Nahum 1.1. Book title: Burden of Ninevah
NOTE: Narry the hint of anything aluding to Nineveh until chapter 2 verse 8.2. Topic one: The Biblical god, Jehovah. (ASV) Jehovah avenges and is full of wrath, taking vengence on his adversaries, reserving wrath for his enemies in verse 2.Jehovah has his way in the whirlwind (tornadoes, hurricanes) and in the storm and the clouds are the "dust of his feet." verse 3Jehovah rebukes the sea by making it dry, dries up all the rivers, Bashan, Carmel and the "flower of Lebanon" languish. verse 4The mountains quake at him (Jehovah), the hills melt (leveling effect), the earth is upheaved (earthquakes), "the world and all that dwell therein." (verse 5) NOTE: SEE REVELATION 16:18-20 Day of Jehovah's indignation (end time wrath of God as per other prophets, Jesus and Revelation. "who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his anger is poured out like fire and the rocks are broken asunder by him." verse 6 (still in chapter one of Nahum)Jehovah is a stronghold in the day of trouble and cognisant of those who take refuge in him. verse 7The rest of chapter one appears to be directed to Judah as noted in verse 15, assuring them that their persecutors are cut off. (This is what happens at Armageddon when the armies of the nations who invade Israel are destroyed as per messianic prophecies and the future events, an example of which is in Ezekiel chapters 36 through 39 regarding what appears to be culminating with Armageddon, i.e the last war (invasion of Jerusalem by nations culminating with the 2nd (messianic) advent of Jesus/lord/messiah.CHAPTER 2 CONTINUES WITH REFERENCE TO Jacob/Israel: Nahum prophesies that Jehovah will "restore" Israel after their enemies are all eliminated.verses 3 amd 4 describe these vehicles (chariots) which "flash with STEEL in the day of his preparation." They "rage in the streets; the RUSH TO AND FRO IN THE BROADWAYS. They look like torches (likely night vision of modern broadways/freeways). They "run like lightnings" speed unimaginable by ancient horsemen and footmen.Nobels et al addressed in next three verses. Then note the wording in verse 8, the first verse of the book of Nahum which actually addresses the city of Nineveh:"BUT NINEVEH has been of old like a pool........" Nahum 2:8
After prophesying concerning the latter day wrath time of Jehovah, the prophet now reverts back contemporaneously to prophesy the destruction of Nineveh, including the destruction of their own ancient armies and chariots. I know there's a controversy as to the dating of the book and this thread is not for debating that. I believe Usher dates it around 713 BC but I am unable to verify that.Suffice to say, if one; anyone who cares to keep what is written in perspective looks at the evidence which I have documented, the description of the speedy steel chariots having torches/lights in question are not contemporaneous to the time of Nahum.I've spent over an hour on this one message in order to respond to the folks who are falsely alleging that I am addressing the prophecies in a reckless and careless manner.EDITED FOR CORRECTION OF QUOTE WHICH I INTENDED TO ADDRESS AT BEGINNING OF THIS MESSAGE Edited by Buzsaw, : To replace wrong Arach quote

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

My dear brother, Biblical creationists are blessed (abe: to) have the luxury of someone as willing as you are to take the heat in such a kindly, evenhanded and articulative manner in order to balance the ideological debates at EvC. It's usually one versus a host of counterparts as you have experienced. You're equal to a half dozen of them for our team. The word angel = Greek/Angelos = messenger. You, dear brother, imo, are a messenger whom God has sent to EvC town. Thank you so very much for your laborious contribution to EvC and may God's richest blessings be on you and yours! Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

NJ didn't say every nation will view the bodies. He said all nations can view the bodies - big difference.The context states that these men will be so hated of the nations that people of the whole world will be celebrating the deaths of them. After all, these prophets had the power to cause it not to rain at will for three and a half years as well as other stuff. Judging from the extent of the celebration, the implication is horrendous global drout/global warming/famine, et al as other prophets have implicated to come on the world.This is one heckofa biggie event. It would be very likely that the TV viewing world will view the bodies and UN representatives of the nations would demand no burial in order to please their constituents of the nations whom they represent. God also has a stake in this. He sees to it that the nations also view the resurrection of these two so as to put the fear and awe of himself into the rebellous creatures of the planet whom he has created in his own image.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

1. Some names on your list are not Biblical fundamentalists at all but mere cultists.
2. Among the millions of Biblical fundies, it should not be unusual to expect that there will be some who will not consistently adhere to all of the fundamentals of the Bible.
3. Secularists and non-Biblical fundies have a worse track record globally than Biblical fundies have by a long shot. Well over a hundred million people last century were murdered by their own secularist governments prohibitive of the propagation of the Biblical fundamentals. Most global terrorists in our day have some connection to Islam. The most oppressed nations today are either Communist leaning or Islamic fundamentalist with few Biblical fundies in them.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Hi Mike. It's also unfair for my counterpart skeptics to essentially cancel out the very words of the text which I've shown to apply to a number of other nations than Ninevah, infact the entire world, naming them by text quote, all the way from chapter one verse 2 through chapter 2 verse 8. LOL, they choose not to believe, no matter what empirical documentation the prophecy advocate produces. Why? Because for any of them to admit to even one tiny miracle would be to destroy their secularist mindset.Not only that but they totally ignore the fact that many of the events of chapter one of Nahum have never been fulfilled and that I posted near verbatum (abe: equivalant) events also prophesied in the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible which have yet to be fulfilled. If they were rational in their responses, they would admit that if it could not have possibly have applied to the city of Ninevah, that introductory segment of the book had to apply to the named groups of the text being debated. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

1. Newton's Laws were the three laws of motion which had to do with motion, gravity and inertia, et al. It would not be unusual or out of character for him to make such a statement applicable to the speed/motion of travel. inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blnewton.htmNewton was also a student of the Bible. Thus it would not be unusual or out of charater for him to make such a statement. web.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhatch/pages/01-Courses/current-courses/08sr-newton.htm(Embolding mine for emphasis)2. There is a monthly publication, "The Signs Of The Times." The link will take you to their forum. 3. There is a whole lot of existing info including quotes of notables which are not found on the internet. I do not have time to go to the library and search out whether this quote exists but it is a given that if I had time I could likely find a lot notables said that is not on Google et al.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Hi Iceage. Before you edited out your request for my responses to your message #10 concerning the authenticy of the Newton quote in message one, I began researching and have finished spending an hour or so researching the Isaac Newton quote. For you and others who are interested you can now read my response in message #155.abe: http://EvC Forum: Fulfilled Prophecy -->EvC Forum: Fulfilled ProphecyEdited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Hi Ringo. You're pretty good at posting brief potshots at folks who do the tedious work. I spent over an hour on the evidence in message #99. How about you spend a little more of your time reading and assimilating the evidence and a little less of it posting substanceless potshots alleging there's none?http://EvC Forum: Fulfilled Prophecy -->EvC Forum: Fulfilled Prophecy

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

....And I suppose you deny that all the prophecies of Jews returning to their land to become a nation in the latter days many centuries before the fact after all these centuries of being scattered around the world were prophetic. On the prophecies? There's no indication you have. Ringo, like most of your other substanceless stuff, all you do with my stuff is these potshots containing sound refutations of nothing. They're often nice and entertainingly witty, but that's about it. They document refutation of nothing.How about copying and pasting some evidence in #99 about Nahum 1 and prove to me and the www that the context is about Ninevah or soundly refuting prophecies to produce sound, sensible reason why Israel's latter day re-emergence as a nation after all those centuries among the nations around the world was never prophesied? Aye? Well, then my friend, how about you cease and desist your insults regarding my intelligence by alleging that my scholarship is abysmal in a thread where I spend hours documenting my stuff? Deal?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Now your getting downright insolent, Ringo. I suggest you stick to addressing the debate at hand and lay off rudly maligning the member you're debating.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

You people are flat out denying the imperical evidence I've produced. When are one of you going leave off badmouthing to admit that the names of the nations and people of the world as well as the whole world itself are being addressed with specific events/aspects applying to each and those names are not Nineveh in chapter one after the introductory mention of Ninevah in verse one?Unless I've missed it, not one of you prophecy skeptics has addressed the peoples to which the events of chapter one apply by name or the nature of the events not applicable to the city of Ninevah. All you seem to accomplish is to badmouth your counterparts in this thread.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

FYI, the NIV (New International Version) is one of the more liberal translations so far as acuracy goes. Why? A few decades ago when I lived in Escondido, Ca, while the NIV was being translated, one of the translators spoke in our church. He made a very disturbing statement, imo, which went something like this: "We are not so much interested in the accuracy of the translation as we are in the message." The disturbing thing about this to me was that these NIV translators were introducing their interpretation of the message into the text rather than to do what good and accurate translators do, i.e, translate the text, keeping what the text/manuscript says without adding names and other data not in the text. Let the reader be the interpreter of what he/she is reading and let not it be programmed into the thinking of the readers by translators. All kinds of bias and ideological bents corrupt translations which deviate from what is written as is the case here. Thus, the NIV has come to be replaced by the NASV in the majority of the fundamentalist churches in recent years. I have done extensive comparison of the translations and I find the ASV to be the most literal tranlation to the Alexandrian Text, the text which contains the oldes of the manuscripts. Btw, fyo, the NIV was also taken from this same Alexandrian (sometimes referred to as Nestlies) text for the most part. Compare it with the ASV and you see how liberal the NIV translators were in adding to and taking away from the literal message of the text.I suggest if one really wants to know the truth about what chapter one of Nahum says, you go to Google and read the ASV on it. If you don't like that, go to the KJ (King James,) the NASV (New American Standard Version) or some of the mainline more literal translations and you will see that Ninevah is not in the events of chapter one. Other places are named, including Judah, Lebanon, Bashan, Carmel, the seas, the mountains, the earth, "the earth is upheaved, at his presence, yea the world and all that dwell therein." (ASV)Then in the remaining verses of chapter one you see a number of "thee"s, the last of which implies to whom the "thees" refer. It goes in verse 15: "Keep thy feasts, O Judah, perform thy vows; for the wicked one shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off. The latter day prophets like Zechariah, et al prophesy that after the last battle which will be Armageddon in the Valley of Jehosaphat at the river Kedron near Jerusalem where the nations are gathered against Jerusalem, the Judah and the nations will be required to keep some of the feasts of Jehovah in the new messianic kingdom.Chapter one, folks, is a segue end time prophecy segued in there to proclaim to Ninevah that they, like the other world enemies of Judah and Jerusalem would eventually all be taken out. Even if some of the "thees" in chapter one may be interpreted as addressing Nineveh, the events named in chapter one do not refer to Ninevah. They clearly apply to the peoples specified in them.Note, that in the original text, chapters and verses did not exist They were added in tranlating for specification as the early translators saw fit to their liking. I see the chariots of chapter two as descriptive of something far different than in ancient days. Their ways were not broadways. They were only as fast as a horse. They had no purpose or reason to crash in the "broadways" in battle. For the most part they were not of steel. If they were, they wouldn't have burned as the burning chariots pertaing to Ninevah in verse 13 of chapter 2. and though torches may have been used on occasion, they were pretty much daytime vehicles, et al.Then in chapter 2 beginning with verse 7 or so, Ninevah is addressed directly as to their demise by Jehovah via nations he rises up for his purposes, whatever they be.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28