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Author Topic:   Existence of Noah's Ark
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 256 (141897)
09-12-2004 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by joshua221
09-12-2004 8:24 PM


Ron Wyatt is daid. And most likely in Hell.
As research on your own, go to Ron's site and look up the analysis of the rivet from the Ark. It's worth it for a laugh.
Now two questions.
What lab did the analysis of the alleged rivet?
How the hell did Noah get Titanium? During the Bronze age?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by joshua221, posted 09-12-2004 8:24 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-13-2004 1:29 AM jar has not replied
 Message 15 by joshua221, posted 09-13-2004 9:46 PM jar has not replied
 Message 16 by joshua221, posted 09-13-2004 9:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 256 (142202)
09-13-2004 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by joshua221
09-13-2004 9:58 PM


When you see some of those names, run, don't walk, to the nearest exit.
Richard Rives, having become acquainted with an international corporation which specialized in metallurgy, made arrangements for the "rivet" to be analyzed in their laboratory.
The guy is a nutcase. Check out his improved microscope.
Note that they don't say who did the analysis. They implie that it was Galbraith Labs in Knoxville, Tennessee but there is nothing connecting the results with anything and the sample has gone missing.
It's classic Ron Wyatt and crew. They are liars and con men. One hundred years ago they wouold have been selling snake oil from the back of a wagon and holding revivals on the weekends.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by joshua221, posted 09-13-2004 9:58 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by joshua221, posted 09-13-2004 10:12 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 256 (142219)
09-13-2004 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by joshua221
09-13-2004 10:12 PM


Well, spend some time at the site. If you can honestly look at his evidence and not come away laughing your ass off, then fine. Come back and say YOU believe and that will be accepted. Ask us to believe and we'll laugh OUR asses off.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 256 (142518)
09-15-2004 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by contracycle
09-15-2004 11:19 AM


The section in the red circle is alleged to be an exposed part of the structure of the ark itself while the blue lines are alleged to be the outline of the boat. Because it's curved they believe it outlines one of the side structures.
It's been an issue since the photos were released in the late 70's IIRC. But it simply looks like a rocky outcrop and a ridge line to many.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 256 (142519)
09-15-2004 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by contracycle
09-15-2004 11:19 AM


For Percy
This is a double post. First time around I got an internal server error. I used the back button tried to resubmit and then found the earlier attempt had succeeded.
This message has been edited by jar, 09-15-2004 10:28 AM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 256 (142605)
09-15-2004 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by PaulK
09-15-2004 11:46 AM


The story from Ron's site is even better.
When an object undergoes the process of fossilization, as its material decays it is replaced by material in the surrounding soil or water. The analysis revealed exactly what would be expected to be found in a fossilized metal washer and rivet (non-living matter) attached to a piece of fossilized wood (once living matter).
Note:
The discovery of titanium in the "Rivet" is of special interest. The advantage of titanium as a metal is its tremendous strength, its light weight and its resistance to corrosion.
All of the analyses performed on the "Rivet" found it to contain Iron, Aluminum, Manganese, Vanadium and Chromium. These elements are known today to be the major alloying agents added to titanium.
Note that they found fossilized metal.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 256 (144619)
09-25-2004 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by riVeRraT
09-25-2004 8:51 AM


I wish I could make a computer model of what I am saying to cleary show you guys.
Actually, you don't need a computer model.
Here is a calculator for the volume of a sphere.
Go there and calculate two spheres. One at the base radius of the Earth. The other at the base radius plus enough to float the Ark. Then convert the answer to whichever measuring unit you want to use.
Once you get it worked out, all you need is the mechanism that will maintain the cycle for the year or so that the Ark floated around and the mechanism that reversed the flow to float the boat back up the mountain.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 09-25-2004 8:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 09-25-2004 12:01 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 49 of 256 (144636)
09-25-2004 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by riVeRraT
09-25-2004 12:01 PM


How much water will it take to float the Ark?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 256 (145003)
09-27-2004 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by riVeRraT
09-26-2004 9:06 PM


To try to get this back on topic, can I get you to answer the question in Message 49.
Maybe if we take this one small step at a time we can get somewhere.
Is it likely the Ark existed if there was not enough water to float it?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 62 by riVeRraT, posted 09-26-2004 9:06 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by riVeRraT, posted 09-27-2004 3:49 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 74 of 256 (145114)
09-27-2004 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by riVeRraT
09-27-2004 3:49 PM


Re: float an ark
I would guess it needed at least 20 feet to float, buts thats just a guess.
Okay, step two.
Do you agree that we now need a section of water that is at least twenty feet deep and bigger than the Ark to float the sucker?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by riVeRraT, posted 09-27-2004 3:49 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 09-27-2004 4:22 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 78 of 256 (145137)
09-27-2004 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by riVeRraT
09-27-2004 4:22 PM


Re: float an ark
Wait! Running flood waters could move the ark into deeper water, without it being 20 feet, but the bible doesn't describe it that way.
Not really. If it takes 20 feet to float it it takes 20 feet to float it whether it's still or moving.
Agreed?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 09-27-2004 4:22 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by riVeRraT, posted 09-28-2004 8:49 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 256 (145326)
09-28-2004 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by riVeRraT
09-28-2004 8:49 AM


Re: float an ark
Okay, let's go on to the next step.
We need to have 20 feet of water at the location of the Ark and for a considerable distance around it.
Will you agree that the flooded area has to be at least as far as anyone can see or travel (using the methods common back in Noah's day) in a reasonable period of time (less time than the 40 days and 40 nights of rain)?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by riVeRraT, posted 09-28-2004 8:49 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by riVeRraT, posted 09-28-2004 6:23 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 88 of 256 (145453)
09-28-2004 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by riVeRraT
09-28-2004 6:23 PM


Re: float an ark
I have to see what your getting at, you can go a little faster.
Maybe, but I've found that if we go one step at a time and make sure we are agreed about each step then it makes it quicker overall.
So we both agree that we need 20 feet of water over an area larger than anyone could normally travel in 40 days at the time of the alleged flood.
So what mechanism could you propose that would allow that?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by riVeRraT, posted 09-28-2004 6:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 09-28-2004 7:20 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 94 of 256 (145479)
09-28-2004 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by riVeRraT
09-28-2004 7:20 PM


Re: float an ark
Well, let's look at some major floods. We could start close to home. How deep does the water get when the Mississippi floods?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 09-28-2004 7:20 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by riVeRraT, posted 09-29-2004 6:26 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 108 of 256 (145606)
09-29-2004 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by riVeRraT
09-29-2004 6:26 AM


Re: float an ark
Let's talk about the Great Flood of 1993 since that is the one that you picked. It certainly was a major event and can be used as an example of what we have been saying.
First, the depth of 49.3 feet above flood stage is a reading in the levied channels. That is not the depth of flooding once the waters overflowed the levies and spread out. Second, it was one of the most extensive floods recorded and also one of the best documented.
Look at this map from the USGS.
It shows the actual extent of flooding during the 1993 Mississippi flood.
As you can see, even though many, many areas were flooded, the vast majority of the ajoining land was not. Even in the floded areas, the depth outside the levie system seldom reached more than a few feet, and no where did it reach twenty feet.
Check out these USGS photos of the flooding. In them you will see mobile homes almost covered. That indicates a depth of about ten feet or so.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by riVeRraT, posted 09-29-2004 6:26 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by riVeRraT, posted 09-29-2004 10:53 PM jar has replied

  
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