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Author Topic:   A question for Athiests/Evolutionists. (re: How can one not belive in something greater than himself? et all)
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 115 of 282 (162499)
11-23-2004 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheClashFan
11-19-2004 10:15 PM


Clash Fans thread synopsis
TheClashFan writes:
How can one not believe in something greater than himself? How can one go through life's difficulties and be unable to always know that at least one person loves you? At times, it is my only comfort knowing that God loves me, and I cannot understand how one can go through life without belief in something. Can anyone give me a good reason on why they do not believe in any omnipotent being or deity?
Asgara writes:
Over the years, as my original faith diminished, I have found that I am stronger than I ever thought I was. I feel like I am happier and better adjusted now than I ever was when I used the crutch of belief to get me through the bad times.
I might add that for some, religion is a crutch while for others such as myself, it is an anchor.
Sidelined writes:
I personally have been quite capable of dealing with life.
Its not the director of the dance nor the dancers...its the dance itself, right old chap? (Sidelined and I rarely see eye to eye but I like him!)
Clash writes:
Aren't either of you worried about OTHER things messing with your lives? Things that you may not be able to see or notice?
It really feels good to believe that an Omnipotant God, a gentle and trustworthy father figure, is on your side.
NosyNed writes:
There have been difficult times when it would have been nice to be able to believe in a big helper. From those I think I can understand the inclination to want to believe... that just isn't the way I think. I require some better reason than my own desires. I am much too aware of the history of such ideas throughout the world. There simply isn't any reason to believe in such an idea and there are many to not believe.
Unlike Ned, I have reasons for believing in an omnipotant and approachable God.
Ned has a point in that I can never prove my God to anyone. Both Ned and asgara use much more common and rational sense than I do.
CrashFan, I think that you know deep inside yourself what you actually believe. To me, there are two relationships in life. 1) With God. 2) With other people. God is very personal with me, and I have seen Him work in situations that otherwise never would have happened. It is good to explore how other people think and to have an open mind in these situations.
ClashFan writes:
It embarasses me greatly that men of my faith(Christianity) once slaughter innocent people because they would not convert.
I agree, but I would say that those men were not really Christians to begin with. A true Christian, influenced by the Holy Spirit would never do such a thing. There have been many throughout History who have called themselves Christians who are not.
As for the Demons, I will not say that they do not exist, for I also have had certain experiences in life that would suggest such a presence. You are from a Christian background, so might I suggest to you that it is better to focus on the power of God as Truth and Love and not to focus on the other vibes. They only have the power that we give them...they cannot harm you without your permission.
Born2Preach writes:
I assume the 'other' power as you call it to be more likely to 'jump out' at theists than atheists, because revealing themselves wouldn't do much good to keep the deception of no God going, now would it?
Wow! One of the most astute things that you have ever said! I am impressed! Good point!
Clash writes:
I know that most people reading these posts do think that I'm a nut, but I could just bet that if you looked through your life hard enough, no matter your religion or lack of religion, you will find something unexplained that has affected you.
Clash, I don't think that you are mad at all out of norm for someone your age. I had lots of hangups and emotional boilovers when I was younger. I still do, but I have learned how to cope and overcome them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 10:15 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by TheClashFan, posted 11-23-2004 8:44 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 122 of 282 (162642)
11-23-2004 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by sidelined
11-20-2004 6:58 PM


Re: It's a matter of choice
sidelined writes:
Again I will ask how does a verse from an ancient text reveal the nature of god rather than merely the opinion of the writer as to the nature of god? How could this man have any more insight into gods capabilities than you since he also cannot be capable of understanding god as you say?
Even though we as humans cannot understand God,(meaning that we can't second guess Him) He can impart wisdom into us. In my Belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 6:58 PM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by happy_atheist, posted 11-23-2004 1:26 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 124 of 282 (162710)
11-23-2004 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by happy_atheist
11-23-2004 1:26 PM


Re: It's a matter of choice
How would you tell the difference between someone who had wisdom of something they couldn't know naturally implanted in them and someone who didn't have that wisdom, but thought they did?
How? How do you know when someone has intuitive knowledge vs when someone is full of themselves? Good question. Many people claim to know, yet many have been duped by charlatans throughout history. You may add the Christian message to the list of charlatans, but I have chosen not to. We each decide what our belief will be. Sometimes, logic has nothing to do with it. Logic and reason can explain as much as you choose to allow. I prefer not to lift up human wisdom as my source of truth. (Not always, at least)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by happy_atheist, posted 11-23-2004 1:26 PM happy_atheist has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 272 of 282 (165574)
12-06-2004 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by ohnhai
12-05-2004 8:04 PM


Re: Why I cant believe in something greater than me...
Ohnhai, that is a brilliant story of young Einstein! You say that belief is ridiculous. And yet you quote a great man who speaks of belief. Methinks that you really mean to inform us that you do not HAVE to believe, but I suspect that you have entertained the notion! Bully for you, then. Keep on thinking! If God is real, He will find you eventually. If not, no big deal, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by ohnhai, posted 12-05-2004 8:04 PM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by sidelined, posted 12-06-2004 7:30 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 276 by ohnhai, posted 12-06-2004 9:40 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 278 of 282 (165771)
12-06-2004 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by ohnhai
12-06-2004 9:45 AM


Re: Why I cant believe in something greater than me...
Ohnhai, I personally have always believed that God was the source of all matter, all knowable and unknowable knowledge, all life, and all that is. The alternative view which you espouse gives reverence and awe to an impersonal universe while skipping the notion of a Creator. So what came first? Creation(matter,elements) or a Creator?
I personally find that if one or the other existed through eternity, the Creator would make more sense preexisting than would lifeless elements. Man is not the source of his own awe inspired wisdom.
At least, not in my opinion.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-06-2004 09:17 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ohnhai, posted 12-06-2004 9:45 AM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by ohnhai, posted 12-07-2004 9:09 AM Phat has not replied

  
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