A question for Athiests/Evolutionists. (re: How can one not belive in something greater than himself? et all)

(Starting off a little off track here, but it ties into the main topic)

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We all choose what we want to believe.

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People are always telling me this, but I really don't think it's true. I never chose what I believe, and even if I went to church for the rest of my life and tried to act as a Christian I couldn't force myself to believe in something - just want to believe in it. External causes (such as new data or evidence) or internal uncontrolled causes (such as what I call my epiphany moments, those moments when suddenly everything makes sense but seem to come randomly) can change my beliefs, but I can't choose them actively. Perhaps my thought process is simply different from most, but I cannot simply say, "I want to believe this" and cause myself to believe it.Therefore, in response to the original post:

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How can one not belive in something greater than himself? How can one go through life's difficulties and be unable to always know that at least one person loves you? At times, it is my only comfort knowing that God loves me, and I cannot understand how one can go through life without belief in something. Can anyone give me a good reason on why they do not belive in any omnipotent being or diety?

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(Of course, it's already been covered, but I do believe in greater things than myself - just that God isn't one of them) I don't believe in God because I can't believe in God. At least, not the God of the Bible - the supposed contradictions in what God is supposed to be and what He does, the history behind the Bible and how it was written, and to a lesser extent, science - all of these play a part in this belief. At the same time, I have irrational beliefs, and I recognize them as such, but I still can't force myself to believe differently - I'm logic-oriented, but not logic-based. I suppose you could say I am to a stereotypical logic-based atheist what a biblical non-literalist is to a fundamentalist.I get the sense, though, that your question was more directed at how one can exist without the hope of a guiding being, rather than how one can not believe in it (since your questions, last one aside, had more to do with the comfort religion brings than the basis of one's belief). This question seems especially appropriate to me right now; I just recently reached a very lonely place, relatively, in my life, and at times I truly wish there were some greater being I could place my troubles upon. But when it comes down to it, all I really need to move forward is the idea that at some point, things will get better. As time passes, eventually things will right themselves - with an effort on my part, of course. Not fate, as it might seem (I don't believe in that, either), but simple hope. And it's really not that different from yours, from your God.We both derive our comfort from hope; the only difference is what form the hope takes.

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He allowed evil to be created so that we would choose Him out of free will.

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But is evil really necessary for free will? In most situations, there is more than simply a single good option and a single evil option.Furthermore, by allowing evil, doesn't that jeopardize the free will of those who are victim to it? If you die from someone else's act of evil, hasn't your own chance at free will been significantly hindered?

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It's easier to choose to be evil, though, isn't it?

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I'm not so sure - in many situations, it might be more profitable, but I've found that in the past my conscience bothered the hell out of me even if there was no chance of repercussions, to the point that sometimes I would not be able to focus on anything else without my thoughts wandering back.

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This is the problem with unbelievers - they'll attack the hell out of you for supporting the bible, and say God is evil, yet they'll then say that evil doesn't exist - and a child murderer is not evil.

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You're putting words into our mouths and attacking the resulting straw man. I know that I, for one, have never claimed that evil doesn't exist or that a child murderer isn't evil. Perhaps you are confusing relative morality for lack of morality?In any case, atheists and agnostics are a diverse bunch, and broad statements such as this tend to only describe a certain few.

My first instinct is to believe that this is a post from a Christian (that is, though I hate to use the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, someone who thinks he is a Christian) in an attempt to discredit the other side. My second is to believe this is some sort of joke (a bad one). Otherwise, your entire post proves you just as "fanatic" and intolerant as those you oppose. There is no worth in saying anything more to you until you can demonstrate that you can post in a coherent and constructive matter on the topic, rather than ad hom attacks and outright threats.{Edited to add one the instincts, which was lost in editing.}This message has been edited by Morte, 12-05-2004 12:58 AM