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Author | Topic: Is there such a thing as chance? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
If your father commits sin (sin by definition) and abuses his body with alcohol. Those traits are carried over to you. Isn't that simple? Eh? Not only creationism but Lamarckism now? TTFN, WK
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Well, does that mean that anyone who calls themselves a Christian, no matter how heinous their behavior or views, can still be a "true" Christian in your eyes? quote: Yes, of course he is a Buddhist. Who am I to say otherwise? He could simply be not very successful at being a Buddhist. Similarly, didn't you just say that you couldn't actually judge who is a "true" Christian or not, and that the matter was between the individual and God? Which is it?
Let me explain. By "inconsistencies", I mean the fact that there are so very many religions that are currently practiced, or have been practiced in the past. Most of them claim to be the Truth, and that all the others are wrong. They can't all be right, and the largest determinant of what religion you will be is the place you were born combined with the religion of your parents. quote: O...Kaaaaay. See, that's part of the stuff that every religion says, except with different dieties. Saying "it's in the Bible" is meaningless when we can also say "It's in every other holy book and religious oral tradition."
I have no problem with whatever anyone believes. However, when people start to claim that theirs is the One True Faith, and that another faith, or lack of faith, is inferior to their view, I have a problem. The Christians I have encountered on this board generally think it's normal to think their worldview is superior to all others. That bugs me. quote: It also has the potential to seriously endanger my freedoms and rights, if the people like this are not put in check.
quote: Yes, I'm sure it would be good for them to think on that, but in the mean time, they are not particularly encouraged to do so. In the meantime, they are imposing their views upon many other people in the world and in the US. An oppressive group which thinks it's right with God is the hardest foe to beat.
No, I clearly have it better than you, because I can appreciate the beauty in Jesus, but I can also appreciate the beauty in Zen, in the Buddha, in the Great Spirit, and in Krishna. I would guess that you would not allow yourself to approach these religions in the open way that I can. quote: Well, yes, on that we can agree. ...which makes me think of your rather negative stance on homosexuality.
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
This is wonderful, thank you.
But I'm not trying to preach the word, since - so far as I'm concerned, this is not a suitable venue. I responded to Schraf with what I considered a proper thought. Sorry it did not please you. I'm absolutely certain you are not alone in this. quote:this should work thanks again blow me down, it works. This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 01-18-2005 10:43 AM
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
I'll address 'my rather negative stance on homosexuality'.
A person discussing murder is not necessarily a murderer, however, why would I need to justify to you or anyone, how I feel on certain subjects? So you believe a buddhist that practices poor buddhistics is still a buddhist. You cannot imagine how o.k. that is with me. This has turned into a circular discussion, which is unpleasant to me. Thank you for your effort. You're not after information. This message has been edited by PecosGeorge, 01-18-2005 11:06 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You don't. But then why are you here, on a debate board?
quote: Sure, why not? It's up to them to decide, isn't it?
quote: Good.
quote: I've just been following you around. Stop walking in circles and it will cease being a circular conversation.
quote: I am after reasoning and explanation.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
they have been under examination for about 30 years or so
But have only been recently discovered as to what is causing them.I am an ameture astronomer. I haven't been studying for a few years now, but I have learned enough about the stars and the universe to be qualified to talk on it. It is the last field where ametures can still contribute. I used to by measuring variable star, to help in the search of planets around other stars. It would seem the explosions, and the rate at which they happen, would give life a lot less of a chance of ever happening. And we are not exclusive. It can and will happen here in our galaxy. But our solar system should be safe for a long time.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
First off, I am not a creationalist. I do not subscribe to rither science, but appreciate both views. Niether one has all the answers.
I just believe in God. You can call it what ever you want, that doesn't change the fact that it happens. A bunch of people 2000 years ago knew it too. Keep your eyes open.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Can we stay on topic?
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
ROFL
I think you have a crush, but suga, you are not my type.
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
can we stay on topic?
why, soidenly.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Eww, don't flatter yourself. I think it's more like the way we like to rubberneck at car wrecks.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I realized something today about what you said.
Again, this is an assertion based on your personal (limited) viewpoint. First off I don’t believe that free will is a real issue, nor that the ability to make decisions rests solely with humans (in fact I find the concept incredibly arrogant and condescending to other life). Certainly we are not the only species able to manipulate our environment.
It would seem that you think that all life is on the same level in some sort of fashion?Or do you just have respect for all other life no matter how insignificant?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
that would be a yes, but not a vegetarian yes
I would say there is equal wonder in all life.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
riVeRraT writes: This is where I fall by the wayside a little bit. Sounds awesome. ... To me our thought processes could possibly exist in the 4th demension, You can always come back to it and carry it a little further. And yes, it opens up a possible scenario for many {spirit\ghost\paranormal} possibilities.
Yea, or maybe God, angels, and demons are poking there little heads in and out of our demension. Possible. The probability of any such visitation being in accordance with only one view that has (supposedly anyway) documented such behavior is low. The reality could be something else all together, as any earlier such visitation could have been terribly misinterpreted by a primitive worldview. I have said before on other forums that I think all religions are equally valid.
Science never believes in the supernatural, but maybe this is it's first glimpse of it. Actually science stays agnostic on the issue — it is concerned with seeing what it can determine about the natural laws of the universe and the way things behave. Think about as science asking what can I understand about the {life, the universe and everything} that doesn’t require a supernatural explanation? Think about {religion\philosophy} as asking what can I understand about the {life, the universe and everything} that requires a supernatural explanation? With this viewpoint you can see that they are not necessarily in conflict but can actually be complementary.
What you say it slightly contradicting. Your saying that there are determining factors from other demensions which are imeasurable, that determine things that happen in our demension. This does not make it not predetermined. Nope, I am saying that it may be determined or it may be random, but because we can’t tell which is correct, we ... well ... just can’t tell which is correct.
... ps — it’s DIME-ntion not dementia
So if free will doesn't exist, and nothing is predetermined, whats left? Starting to sound cold and dark out there. ... You feel like you have no control over your life? Because thats what your saying. Either way you want to describe it, humans worship God, ... Besides, I think all of creation worships God, What god(s) do atheists worship? What god(s) do clinical idiots worship? Are they less than human? If all creation worships god, then it does so by mere existence and none of it is any more special than the rest.
Don't know the answer to this one, but are we the only species that commits suicide? No.
If your father commits sin (sin by definition) and abuses his body with alcohol. Those traits are carried over to you. Isn't that simple? Which the alcohol or the sin? If a father shoots himself in the foot while thinking of robbing a store is the child going to be born with a hole in {his\hers}? Will they also shoot themselves in the foot?
I used to walk around saying we are so ignorant if we think that we are the only life forms in the universe. ... Now I am saying that we just might be ignorant to think that we aren't. Have you heard the line about you know you are getting old when you stop worrying about growing old and start worrying about not growing old? I have a high degree of confidence that other life will be found. Whether it will be intelligent or in comprehensible or even contemporaneous is up for grabs. The discovery of large organic compound precursors in deep space (far enough away to have existed before life on earth) and circling other stars gives me this confidence. I think one of the first thing formed in space from cooling gas and left over elements of exploded stars would be billions of molecules from the easier to combine elements ... H ... C ... O ... N ... etc. enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
I do not subscribe to rither science OK, so you're not a creationist. That doesn't make your rubbish about paternal alchoholism any less non-sensical. Certainly a child growing up in a household with an alcoholic father might be more likely to develop alcoholism, and certainly there are genetic factors which may predispose people to alcoholism thereby making it a familial trait, but do you have a single shred of evidence supporting the contention that if a father without a genetic predisposition to alcoholism became an alcoholic and fathered a child, that that child would be any more predisposed to alcoholism than any other due to "sin", leaving aside the environmental issue of being raised in a home with an alcoholic parent? TTFN, WK
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