Is there such a thing as chance?

So then your not pro-abortion?

Yes, I believe that, to an extent, all religions are valid. Who's to say that it isn't God?
When Jesus says no-one gets to the father except by me, what does that mean specifically? Is he waiting there at the gates? Do we have to act like him, regardless our beliefs?
But to deny God to me would be wrong.
I believe everything was created for his glory, including all religions. I refuse to judge other religions, except for myself.The bible speaks of portals, and transportations and such.
Also speaks of transformations. I believe I have been transformed, and born again. I am not exactly the same person I was before, I have been tweaked a little, for the better. Anything short of love for others is a deception. I agree, we can't tell which is correct. But it urks me to think that something could be random, without having a conscience. (haha, look at that word, con-science). The only way I could accept it is if it was designed to be random, I guess. Ok my head is going to explode. Choosing not to worship, ahhh. There in lies the truth. Choosing not to believe, also truth. Does truth exist? Please try to understand how it works.
Jesus said, inorder to be forgiven, you must forgive. You can start with yourself.
If a father shoots himself in the foot, and he never forgives himself, he will carry that burden for the rest of his life, and that burden will go over to his children. Even if he doesn't raise then (then the burden will be worse, not having your natural father).When we don't forgive, we only hurt ourselves. We lock ourselves inside a prison. There is such great freedom in forgivness.When we do decide to forgive, especially in the name of Jesus, a new freedom is placed in your soul/spirit, and you are free. So will be the generations that follow you.It's not the alcohol, but his decsion to abuse it, which is actually the root cause of the sin. Since I am in to space so much, I hope for the same thing. How this correlates to God and the bible, I am just not sure. Maybe Jesus will come before we actually find anything. Maybe we won't find anything. Maybe we will. Doesn't change the way I feel about God.The universe is either full of life, or we are the only ones here.

Yes, by the same reasons I just posted in message 92 Just ask a psychologist, they can explain how it works too.The biggest problem we have is the layers of deception, and it makes it hard for us to see. Thats exactly what the devil has been building up all these thousands of years.I would love for you to try something. Try looking at things from a spiritual perspective. When someone talks to you, listen to the words, but more important listen to what their spirit is saying. try looking at everything from a spiritual perspective of good vs. evil, and your eyes might open up a little. We live our lives in the flesh, and we block out the spiritual.
I found that in my life living in the flesh leaves a lot of unanswered questions. I can see things much clearer now that I look at the spiritual, and it's the spiritual according to God, not some tara card reader.

Right, the point being that it exists. Doesn't matter what you label it as. It is fact that problems carry down through the generations. If we dwell deeper into it, we find that even the stuff we do ourselves, and against our planet, the whole world suffers from it.W IMO we don't need psychologists to tell us that. It was indicated to us 2000 years ago. The thing I find most amazing is how some people can be cured of these problems in the snap of a finger through God, yet psychologists take years to sort things out. I am one of those people.What happened to me amoung other things? Well I tell you. I was never able to play music in front of people for the last 34 years. I would get to nervous. My church asked me to play, so I decided to give it another try. Not to drag the story out and get into all the little details, but in the blink of an eye my fear was gone when I asked God to take it away, because I would now be playing for his purpose.BTW, I still get nervous if I am not playing for God. Now I have tried to rationalize this in my head. I even thought I made this all up in my own head by imagining that I was playing for a higher purpose. But thats not it. I've been over it a thousand times. I am either crazy, or there is a God.Next what happened is that for my whole life I wanted to sing and play. First off, I have no voice, I can hear that I sing off-key. Second it is so difficult to sing and play at the same time. Well I now do it, in front of 200 people every Sunday, and its for the Lord.
So, I don't think that being crazy can make you smarter, and sing better.This is my own personal stuff, and you will analize it and break it down so that it doesn't mean anything. But thats fine.If you want to start correcting each other with spelling thats fine too, I'm not sure what you meant when you said "pychological phenomena" but maybe you meant "physiological phenomena".Either way, I do not judge people by how they spell, because I am the worst at it. I could take the time and spell check everything, but time is limited, and I just want to get my point across.*edit*see, edited for spelling, or typing error, whatever.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 01-19-2005 16:24 AM

right.

Everything except our free will.
Or the free will of any being. I drink alcohol. I have a glass of wine once or twice a month. It is now very clear to me that before when I used to drink a little more, say like 3-4 glasses every third night (or there abouts) that I was abusing my body. I think everyone knows inside them when it is abuse and when it is not. There is no set rule according scripture.
The bible only advices that it is better to get drunk on the spirit, than alcohol.

Yes, I agree with you.
I was for the death penalty, but now after being saved, I have second thoughts about that. We are not to kill one another.I believe if we had enough faith that God would take care of it. But that is unlikely to happen as a group effort now.I am for abortion if it is to save the life of the mother, or for any good medical reason. But not just for choice, not because you just don't feel like having this baby.I am pro choice, chose not to screw around.

I'm telling you, I self analized it a thousand times. Thats not it.The first time Iplayed there, I had only been going there for about a month and a half. I really didn't know these people.When I started my song, which BTW was an old hymn that I could not play correctly after 2 weeks of practice, I got that nervous feeling. I get it so bad that my kidneys actually start to bother me, and my hands lock up, or I just blank and forget the song. But about 5 seconds into the song, it just disappeared, in a snap, and I played the song perfectly, and even improvised on it for the second go around, something I was unable to do for the 2 weeks of practice.
It was a special moment for sure, and now I don't even see the people sitting there at all.

Show me where it says no to wine please.

They might do that by design. Basically the standard lies within you. The Holy Spirit convicts you, not me, or some standard. Everyone knows when they are doing wrong, for God wrote his laws on the minds and hearts of everyone. In that we have no choice but to be born into it?Without it we have no free will, there would be nothing to choose, everything would be good then, and I think we would be like fruitcakes.Paul realizes this struggle in Romans, and elaborates on it.

No, I said it wasn't clear to me. That was due to all the deception and self denial. Once you clear your mind and open your spirit, and accept what you were told for years, you can then see how true it actually is.You see, I wasn't a drunk, or an abusive person or, anything severe like that, so it really was a borderline thing. We damage ourselves and explain it away. We do that with so much of our lives. We cannot fully see what we are doing until we experience the truth, the light, the cleansing of the blood of Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. Then our spirit grows.Try to understand, I wasn't hitting rock bottom or anything like that, I have a wonderful family with 5 kids, my own home on a lake, my own successful business. Yet my mind was clouded, decieved, full of the tools to self decieve myself, even though deep down inside I knew it was wrong. That is correct. You are confusing 2 separate things though. We have no choice that we are born into sin. As a child you are not held accountable for anything, until you have the understanding. When this happens, is specific to each of us. There are things we do in our lives, and without any teaching of right or wrong, we instantly know they are wrong. That is God.Your free will happens when you choose between doing the wrong thing, or the right thing. Nothing in life, no choice can be made without it relating to good or bad. There is no in-between. Everything was designed, didn't you know that?

Not everything though. But that is just my opinion at this moment in time. That is why I started this thread to try and learn some more about it.Couldn't it be that only somethings are "chaotic" (you say chaotic, I say free will)? These are not choices.
But after being hit, you, or othes around you will have some choices to make.
Free will, only relates to choices. "Free will", because God gave it to us freely, and we can freely choose. This does not mean there won't be consquences.Will, is what and how you want to choose, free will, is the God given ability to choose. That may be a scientific explaination, but it is weak, and has no proof. You are indicating that the universe might actually be something different than it is(which may be true, like heaven and hell).The words "conscious interaction" would indicate that we don't really have emotions, or we are dry robotic creatures that just react to our complex surroundings. It also indicates that there is no chance, or chaos. I know you weren't implying that, I was just trying to clear up a mostly complex issue, by setting the stage.Paul said it best, but even that is confusing:

I am only trying to explain the spiritual dynamic of it. I don't expect you to see it. I didn't either, but now you walk with this useless knowledge, that some Jesus freak told you on the internet, and you can go see for yourself. Good or bad? God a non-issue?
I don't believe that for a second. Not in you or anyone else.

I was just being sarcastic, and making fun of the possibility that you won't believe me, thats all. If you take what I say and walk with it, whether you believe in it or not, I am grateful. Does it make a sound? lol
Good or bad only relates to human choice.
The way I think right now, I would think that an election is not pre-determined. It may have happened already in another demension, but not predetermened. Really, I didn't know that, as I am not an expert on other religions. I do not even consider myself an expert in my own religion. I will ask some people I know about that one, that is interesting.
So Jews and Musslims do not believe in the fall of man?

Not true. Every choice is a moral one. Some banks charge more than others. There is a kingdon way of handling your finances, and if your bank doesn't fit into that description, then you might be hurting yourself, or your pocket.My freind who believes in tything, once tried to get a mortgage in a bank, and the lady working there told him that the reason why he couldn't afford a house was that he was tything 10% of his income, and he should stop. LMAO, but she didn't realize it was because he was tything that he could even be there in the first place. Should he as a Christian choose that bank?Everything relates to good or bad in some sort of fashion, I challenge you to find one human choice that doesn't.Human descion would not dictate if a tree falls, unless it was a human cutting it down. Then it would matter.Or even this, the amount of pollution we put into our atmosphere has made that tree rot faster, or die quicker, so it did have something to do with it. So yes human decsion can affect even what we think is not affected.