Is Christ cruel? (For member Schrafinator)

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Quote the OT all day if it makes you feel happy. Doesn't change what God says is good via the commandments and Jesus Christ.

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So, do you or do you not agree that God has ordered genocide, the killing of male infants, and the taking of women as the spoils of war?Was it good and moral for God to have done this?

Have you tried to stop believing in Jesus and God like I asked?Were you able to be a hardcore Athiest for one hour?Was it easy?

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The choice is real, because right now, she can believe.

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Have you tried to stop believing in Jesus and God like I asked?Were you able to be a hardcore Athiest for one hour?Was it easy?

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Just for the record, when I suggested that one could make an effort to believe, I didn't mean believe some nebulous thing you just make up about God, I meant believe something specific: believe, for instance, something specific that Jesus said; believe what is written in some part of the Bible.

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Oh, I believe in a lot of what is in the Bible.Some parts of the Bible are wonderful and quite moving.I just don't believe it is the word of God.

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Seems to me to be somewhat easier to believe SOMEBODY, to believe something you are told about *something that happened* that you have no way of verifying otherwise, by somebody who was there and who has a good reputation, than to believe abstract ideas about God.

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If not then not, but at least ACKNOWLEDGE THE DISTINCTION BEFORE YOU JUMP TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IT'S ALL THE SAME. Thank you.

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Well, it really depends upon the stakes of what I'm being asked to believe.If my close friend says to me, "I went to an amusement park last weekend and rode a roller coaster.", I have no problem believing them.If a complete stranger comes up to me and says, "I can swim the English Channel." I am probably not going to believe him unless he can demonstrate to my satisfaction that he can do this.If I read a 2000 year old book that says "This man is the son of God and everything he and his followers wrote needs to be followed to the letter of you will go to hell." then I'm going toneed some incredibly strong trust that this book is accurate and "the real deal".I then find out that this book isn't the only one claiming to speak for God's or gods' wishes but that there are many!It wasn't written by any witnesses to these events, nor by the alleged son of God at all, but by people who were told the stories later, sometimes hundreds of years later.I also find out that there are no original copies of any of the writings; they ahve all been translated a whole bunch of times and copied by hand many times, too, leading me to believe that plenty of errors are likely. Then I also discover that there isn't just a single version of this book, but dozens, each a little different, with different groups saying theirs is the only "real" correct version. I find out that many of the seperate versions were edited by political reasons, and that all of the oldest writings aren't even included but were voted on for in- or exclusion by a bunch of men some hundreds of years ago.

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Overall you do a creditable job of presenting the Christian point of view, and yet for you it's just an intellectual exercise as you don't believe any of it? Interesting.

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More than just interesting, this ability is crucial for anyone to understand any concept.You would do well to emulate this skill.

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You prefer to believe the lies about "the book" and its authors, which have been answered many times. You like them anyway, so I'm going to leave you to them.

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So, there IS an original copy of the Bible, and there really aren't dozens of slightly different versions of the Bible, and the King James bible WASN'T edited to suit, uh, King James, and the Canonical books WEREN'T decided upon by a bunch of men some hundreds of years ago, and the Bible WASN'T translated and hand-copied hundreds of times by fallible men?It remains, Faith, that the stakes of believing in the Bible are much higheer than those of believing a close friend who told me of his trip to an amusement park, so why shouldn't my standards of evidence be much greater?

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I haven't noticed anyone on your side with this skill except Modulous and Legend, and they are quite notable for it.

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Like I said, you would do well to emulate this skill.Maybe you would be let back into the science fora if you did.

If the message of the Bible is so consistent and so obvious, then why are there literally thousands of seperate Christian denominations, teaching many different things?Which one is correct?Perhaps you can settle this issue once and for all?

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It isn't a question of willing yourself to believe something. I could easily accept Christ if I wanted to.

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I couldn't, anymore than I could easily accept the existence of invisible pink unicorns.

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Ah but you could, if you wanted to. You simply don't want to.

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Incorrect.I have wanted to, but it didn't happen.I could ask you to believe that the sun is pulled across the sky by Apollo in his firey chariot and say that you could believe this if you really wanted to, but that you simply choose not to.

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Throw all of the Bibles overboard and line all of the fundie christians up to walk the plank! We will sail into a brave and exciting new world! Think about what it will be like!

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