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Author
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Topic: Focus on the Family Will Keep your Kid from Being Gay
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 32 of 317 (234461)
08-18-2005 11:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 31 by Zhimbo
08-18-2005 11:26 AM
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Congratulations sir.
Oh, and thanks for the link (to keep this on topic). 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by Zhimbo, posted 08-18-2005 11:26 AM | | Zhimbo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 34 by Zhimbo, posted 08-18-2005 11:58 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 45 of 317 (234526)
08-18-2005 1:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by Theodoric
08-18-2005 1:05 PM
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He can't even be identified as a cleric. From Tal's source.
As Muqtada al-Sadr lacks the religious education and degrees required by Shia doctrines, he does not claim the title of mujtahid (the equivalent of a senior religious scholar) or the authority to issue fatwas (religious edicts), consequently he bases his religious authority on his lineage alone.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by Theodoric, posted 08-18-2005 1:05 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by Tal, posted 08-18-2005 1:54 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 96 of 317 (234857)
08-19-2005 2:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 92 by Tal
08-19-2005 2:00 PM
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Well, lets look at what Timothy (Paul) says.
Timothy 1:9-10 in the King James Version
9: Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10: For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Looking closely, I can't find homosexuality mentioned. Let's look at the other characteristics. If you look at murders, adulters, kidnappers etc, they all have something in common. They are acts against the society. But homosexuality is different. It involves those commiting the act only, no one else in the community is even involved, much less affected. Again, if you read all of Timothy it's talking about social order and the law. There is justification for social sanctions against murders, kidnappers, liars, theives. But there can be no justification for social sanctions against homosexuals. If homosexuality is a sin, and many Christians don't think it is, then it is something GOD will judge. That does not give anyone the right or mandate to insert social sanctions against homosexuals. In addition, the very basic commandments of Christianity, "Love others as you love yourself" require that Christians should be opposing discriminatory practices such as the Defense of Marriage Act.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 2:00 PM | | Tal has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 99 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 2:44 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 103 of 317 (234873)
08-19-2005 3:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by Tal
08-19-2005 2:44 PM
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Re: Well, lets look at what Timothy (Paul) says.
Uhhuh, except all the other scriptures you are ignoring. I'm not ignoring them. I'm saying Paul was often a hypocrite when it served his purpose and that many of his writings are also being misunderstood. You quoted a copy of Timothy that included the word homosexual. I provided another copy of the same verses that does not contain the word or even concept homosexual.
That's not what is happening. Homosexuals don't have the right or mandate to insert their social agenda against the rest of society. Let's see if there is ANY merit to that assertion. If homosexuals are granted the rights and resposibilities of marriage, how does that modify a heterosexual marriage?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 2:44 PM | | Tal has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 105 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 3:12 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 106 of 317 (234883)
08-19-2005 3:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 105 by Tal
08-19-2005 3:12 PM
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Re: Well, lets look at what Timothy (Paul) says.
Oh, then same thing with you. How can ya'll use the bible to argue your case when you don't believe it? Oh, I believe in the Bible. I think it's one of the greatest works man ever created. More cut & paste. As usual, totally wrong. Let's look at what your preacher said.
Making it legally possible for same-sex couples to get "married" in America will forever alter the meaning of marriage for everybody. It is a much more profound change than modifying the wording in a few laws. Marriage is more fundamental to the human experience than the laws regulating it because it was around long before there were laws; marriage statutes merely recognize and regulate an institution that has always existed. How does a same-sex mariage alter a different-sex marriage? It doesn't much matter if it's been around before the laws (if that's even fact and no one has ever provided any evidence of that), what we're dealing with is the laws today.
Redesigning those laws to reinvent that institution - the foundational unit of society - is a genuinely groundbreaking concept. No civilization in the history of mankind has ever done it. Never in human history has there been a society, advanced or primitive, in which same-sex marriage was embraced as an ordinary family form and a normal part of everyday life. Certainly, a few societies have experimented with such unions, but they were anomalies even at the time. A nonsense statement. Of course social institutions have been redesigned. Not all that long ago different-racial marriages were illegal and the same arguments were used then.
Every major world religion - Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism - have for millennia defined marriage as the union of man and woman. Why is it reasonable to believe that a small, vocal minority pushing a totally self-serving agenda, have suddenly discovered some profound truth that the greatest thinkers in the history of mankind somehow missed? Well, that's called change. It happens.
There is one plain truth that has gotten mangled almost beyond recognition in the cat fight over same-sex marriage. It is simple and clear. Man cannot redefine marriage because he didn't define it in the first place; man can't change the nature of the marriage unit because he didn't invent it. God did. That might be true or even pertinent if marriage was a religious institution, but it's not. Can you get married without first getting a license? Nope. It's a social contract.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 105 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 3:12 PM | | Tal has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 108 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 3:47 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 111 of 317 (234889)
08-19-2005 3:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 108 by Tal
08-19-2005 3:47 PM
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Following on
The results of hundreds of scientific studies and years of sociological research is undisputable. There's a mountain of evidence demonstrating the rewards to society as well as to individual families of marriage. Marriage uniquely provides to men and women a level of health, happiness and financial security that cannot be replicated by any other human relationship, including same-sex unions or live-in boyfriends. It is the building block of society that the minority is attempting to force down the majority's throat. Assume for a second that any of the above is true (I am not saying it is true but for the sake of this discussion we can work from that assumption). How does a same-sex marriage have any effect on a hetero-sexual marriage? AbE: It should also be noted that your quote is yet another simply cut & pasted from another place, likely Southeast Christian Church. This message has been edited by jar, 08-19-2005 03:00 PM This message has been edited by jar, 08-19-2005 03:03 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 108 by Tal, posted 08-19-2005 3:47 PM | | Tal has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 135 of 317 (235080)
08-20-2005 8:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 134 by randman
08-20-2005 7:24 PM
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Re: Tal is right
It also seems to me the issue has been seized upon to demonize traditional social conservatives that see homosxuality as a sin, and imo, that is deeply unAmerican and troubling because the whole effort to try to force people to adopt the exact same values is wrong, imo. The idea of America is that different factions could co-exist peacefully. That's crap and you should know it. Those who believe it's a sin are free to continue believing it's a sin. But whether or not it is sinful has nothing to do with the issue. No one has ever been able to show any way that a same-sex marriage can affect a bisexual marriage.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 134 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 7:24 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 137 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 9:10 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 139 of 317 (235104)
08-20-2005 9:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 137 by randman
08-20-2005 9:10 PM
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Re: Tal is right
I believe you don't see it that way. The issue is really simple. How can a couple's same-sex marriage affect another couple's bisexual marriage?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 137 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 9:10 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 140 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 9:27 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 142 of 317 (235109)
08-20-2005 9:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 140 by randman
08-20-2005 9:27 PM
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Head towards the question...
None of that has anything to do with the question I asked. "How can a couple's same-sex marriage affect another couple's bisexual marriage?"
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 9:27 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 143 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 9:37 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 145 of 317 (235126)
08-20-2005 10:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 143 by randman
08-20-2005 9:37 PM
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Re: Head towards the question...
why are you asking me? You tell me. Because unless it can be shown that a couple's same-sex marriage can have an affect on another couple's bisexual marriage there is no justification for the Christian Right's continued campaign to enact laws to proscribe and limit the rights of others.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 143 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 9:37 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 146 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 10:15 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 147 of 317 (235135)
08-20-2005 10:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 146 by randman
08-20-2005 10:15 PM
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Re: Head towards the question...
Sorry but none of that has anything to do with the question. Does a couple's same-sex marriage have any affect on another couple's bisexual marriage? If there is no adverse affect, there is no justification for oppressing the same-sex couple.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 146 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 10:15 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 148 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 10:35 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 149 of 317 (235138)
08-20-2005 10:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 148 by randman
08-20-2005 10:35 PM
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Re: Head towards the question...
First, homosexual couples are not being oppressed, are they? Can they get married?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 148 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 10:35 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 152 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 11:00 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 153 of 317 (235143)
08-20-2005 11:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 152 by randman
08-20-2005 11:00 PM
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Re: Head towards the question...
Same-sex couples can get married?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 152 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 11:00 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 156 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 11:19 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 157 of 317 (235148)
08-20-2005 11:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 156 by randman
08-20-2005 11:19 PM
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Re: Head towards the question...
Sorry, most of what you've posted has nothing to do with the question. Can a same-sex couple get married? If they can't they are being oppressed.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 156 by randman, posted 08-20-2005 11:19 PM | | randman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 212 by Tal, posted 08-22-2005 9:23 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 160 of 317 (235153)
08-20-2005 11:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 158 by crashfrog
08-20-2005 11:29 PM
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Re: Head towards the question...
Letting the discussion be drawn off to that tack simply works in the Christian Rights favor. It has nothing to do with the issue and is just another red herring they like to throw in. If same-sex couples cannot get married they are being oppressed. If the Christian Right can show no affect that a same-sex marriage can have on a bisexual marriage, there is no reason to continue the oppression. Unless they can show some just cause for continuing the oppression, the Christian duty is to support same-sex marriage rights. This message has been edited by jar, 08-20-2005 10:55 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 158 by crashfrog, posted 08-20-2005 11:29 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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