Intelligent Design explains many follies

True science is the study of cause and effect. We can study the things that exist. Where we can know how they function and understand/prove cause/effect, that is science that belongs in the science classroom.The Theory of Evolution is not primarily a theory of how species that exist continue to function and to deal with change. The Theory of Evolution is primarily a theory of how things that exist came to exist.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

I don't know of any instances where mutation result in the betterment of the creature. Maybe you can provide proof examples?Mutations are somewhat rare among creatures and are the result of a failure of DNA repair. When these failures are passed on to their offspring, this too is not betterment. To believe this is how creatures evolved to different creatures is folly.No, we cannot physically see electrons. But the scientific principles by which electrons function are clearly known and taught in electrical engineering courses worldwide.The same is true concerning genetics. Vast scientific progress has been made in understanding the genetics of DNA, and even how to correct DNA mistakes. If these genetic mistakes are so good, why are these genetic scientists trying so hard to correct these DNA mistakes?When you state, "Actually, nothing in science can ever be completely proven," I don't believe very many true scientists will agree with you.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

If you are going to quote me, quote me in context. Here is what I said;"True science is the study of cause and effect. We can study the things that exist. Where we can know how they function and understand/prove cause/effect, that is science that belongs in the science classroom."The Theory of Evolution does not do this! It is primarily concerned with declaring how things evolved over time to where we are now.It's fine to look back at things that existed from the fossil/bone records, but to draw proof conclusions from the fossil/bone records as to how things evolved over time is still folly.As for how Christians worship God, we worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24). If you feel this induces feelings of guilt or is controlling of others, that is your wrong perception.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

To the "degree" that a scientist can understand how things that exist function, and can show cause/effect, that for most scientists is sufficient proof that the principle of cause/effect is proven.Now I see some are backing off and using the words "completely proven."As Bill Clinton would say, "I guess that depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is."This message has been edited by John 10:10, 03-23-2006 12:36 PM

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Maybe you are one of the ones who has 100 billion mutations.The one mutation that I know I have is this:"If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature" (2 Cor 5:17).

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

If you will read my complete statement, what you said is what I was trying to say in different words.Where I draw the line is in applying what we can actually observe and prove today, and declare that this definitely proves what happened in the past when it comes to understanding how organic and inorganic matter came to exist.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

You write,"The theory of Evolution is the proposed cause of the effect that is Evolution. What caused the change in life on earth over time?"If Evolution would state your exact words, "The theory of Evolution is the proposed cause of the effect that is Evolution," every time Evolution is presented, many of us who believe in ID would not object so much.Those of us who believe in ID do not believe life on earth has changed so much over time.I believe ID created new life forms to fit the new conditions on earth as the earth evolved over time. During the Cambrian peroid some 530 million years ago, fully developed life forms apperaed suddenly rather than evolved over long periods of time to get to this point.At least 5 different major extinction periods occurred after this, with new life forms again suddenly apperaing after the extinctions periods. Evolution has had to come with more and more bizarre theories to explain how fully formed creatures suddenly appeared, rather than evolve slowly over hundreds of millions/billions of years.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

This Topic is: Intelligent Design explains many follies.I have tried to show that those who believe in non-ID cannot show any more proof evidence that non-ID is the cause and effect of everything that exists any more than those of us who believe than ID is the cause and effect of everything that exists. I'm still waiting for the non-ID proof.When those who believe in non-ID bring up my faith first, I will defend it. I don't see you telling them to stop making fun of my faith.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

You wrote,"So, in other words, you abandon reasonable knowledge for unknowable, unreasonable speculation.John, when have the laws of physics ever been directly observed to change?"These are your words, not mine. I have a degree in Engineering Physics and understand the laws of nuclear physics and how atoms behave. But understanding this does not tell me how matter came to exist in the first place, nor does it tell you non-ID caused matter to exist in the first place.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

You wrote,"You misunderstand how things work. You need to provide support for YOUR position. So far you have provided NO evidence in support of your position."I have provided plenty of support why "Intelligent Design explains many follies," but not to your satisfaction.When I explain, you say, "Give me proof evidence."Chiroptera says, "Nothing is ever really "proved" in the sciences."It seems we have reached Catch 22 where not much more can be said that will satisfy anyone.Since I am the only one who must provide proof evidence, and you are not satisfied for me to continue this dialogue, I bid you adieu.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

I'm very sorry, but I can't respond to your posts any further. The Administrators here have stated that I have not supported my ID views with evidence. It doesn't seem to matter that those who do not believe in ID can't do it either.I bid you adieu.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

FYI:Since you seem to have trouble reading and understanding my resume, as you have had trouble reading and understanding everything else I've said, I said I have degree in "Engineering Physics," not Electrical Engineering. I have also spent 41 years in the nuclear energy business, both commercial and DOE.Even though I contest the "Theory of Evolution" every opportunity I get, I have had no difficulty whatsoever getting and maintaining my work in the nuclear energy business.But I seriously doubt if any of you could make it where I've been.When all is said and done, we'll see who bites the dust that God has made.Now I bid you adiue.

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Since some cannot seem to let this topic end without taking more potshots at those who know that ID is behind existance, I will offer a few more comments:(1) There is a big big difference in understanding the laws of nuclear physics, how atoms behave, and how to harness the energy contained in the atom/electron than in knowing where the elementary particles of the atom came from. True science is in knowing and proving the how, not in speculating on the where. Pure and simple, the elementary particles of the atom came from from our ID Creator who made the universe, the earth, the dirt, and the electron/photon.(2) I know there is at least one person here who is making six figure income in his working profession. To imply that only those who believe in the theory of evolution are worthy of hire as techinal professionals is shear arrogance!

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Your the one who brought up your six figure income. I'm sure the IRS would like to verify this. They do mine every year.As for my resume, send me yours and I'll send you mine. Then you can verify mine with my present and previous employers. Let's see who has to goods!

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Now my email address is visible. Please email your resume to me, and I will check your credentials out. Then you can do the same for me when I send you my resume.You may think my school and my employers can be forged as well. If so, they will simply tell you they never heard of me.If you want to compare 1040 forms, we can do that too! But you would just say I forged that too!

---

The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10