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Author | Topic: God is cruel | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Wish those damn goalposts would stay still! Quit bitching. It was an honest misunderstanding.
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6111 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: The conditions that resulted in the facts as we live them, were brought on by decisions made by us and for us. What has God to do with them?Adam and Eve decided for themselves and their off-off-offspring, and so do we. I see no condemnation by God. It would be God's fault if he had made them robots rather than self-determining humans. Do you know why you give Him the blame?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Er... what's the difference?
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6111 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: All humanity on this planet had no choice in being born. Birth happens. Upon this event begins a domino effect we cannot outrun. The child is innocent of the sins of its parents, but must bear those sins. Then we should probably not have children. To do so may be unjust and cruel. How you can determine that this is God's injustice and cruelty is beyond my understanding. From the beginning, we are endowed with the privilege to behave as we decide. Consequences are always ours. You see God as unjust and cruel, when it is really we who are.
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
DorfMan writes:
Bingo! my point exactly.
All humanity on this planet had no choice in being born. DorfMan writes:
agreed again! now, who set this domino effect in motion ? (hint: three letters, first one is 'G')
Birth happens. Upon this event begins a domino effect we cannot outrun. DorfMan writes:
why ? who says that it must bear those sins ? who made this rule ? (hint: see hint above)
The child is innocent of the sins of its parents, but must bear those sins. DorfMan writes: Then we should probably not have children. To do so may be unjust and cruel. are WE doing a cruel thing when we have children, or is the RULE-MAKER doing a cruel thing by setting it all up so that the children suffer through no fault of their own ?
DorfMan writes: How you can determine that this is God's injustice and cruelty is beyond my understanding. ?!? so you think that a baby dying of cancer is unjust and cruel due to OUR actions and not God's ?!
DorfMan writes:
what you're forgetting here is that we didn't make up the rules, we're just playing along. You see God as unjust and cruel, when it is really we who are. Let me put it another way: if I intentionally dig up a hole in front of your front door and you fall in it and break your leg, who's being cruel ? A) MeB) you C) the hole D) other "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
DorfMan writes: Then we should probably not have children. To do so may be unjust and cruel.
to which Legend replies quote: at which point jar asked "didn't someone command man to be fruitful and multiply?" Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All this complaining about the inevitable consequences of our sins and attempt to blame it on God, but it is God who gave the solution to the problem. His word is full of advice about how to live so as to avoid the consequences you are talking about. Stop sinning and trust in Him. He is also a healer -- those who trust in Him and pray to Him receive all kinds of blessings, including the healing of all kinds of diseases caused by the Fall. He also sent His Son to die for us so we can have eternal life.
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6111 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: I forget nothing. It is convenient for the non-believer to post such questions only to deride the given answers so he can keep his ball rolling and hope for an outcome suitable to his ball.Ordinarily, I would have terminated this conversation some time ago. Sometime has arrived. You want me to say something I cannot say without becoming a liar. The answer is NO! quote: I recently broke my ankle stepping on one of my grandson's toys. Was he cruel for leaving it where I could step on it, or was I remiss in not looking where I was going?I was remiss and would be if I were to fall into your hole. Believe what you like and be happy with it. I'll do the same.
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6111 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: It is easier for a camel to go through the eyes of a needle than for the one with an axe to grind to find a better use for it. There must be scoffers. Else we would think we had gone to heaven.
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6111 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: That same someone also asked his first two creatures to be obedient. In case you can't make the association........don't eat of the fruit of this tree, is a request for obedience.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
That same someone also asked his first two creatures to be obedient. In case you can't make the association........don't eat of the fruit of this tree, is a request for obedience. And that, in addition to being totally unrelated to what you quoted, is yet another example. Are you saying that it was wrong for them to eat the fruit, to disobey GOD? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6111 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: The same way disobedience is wrong in any setting. It's the snowflake that starts the avalanche.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The same way disobedience is wrong in any setting. It's the snowflake that starts the avalanche. Fine. So he tells these poor suckers before he lets them eat from the fruit that will give them the ability to tell right from wrong. Sorry, but that really is just silly. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
protomenace writes:
First let's make some assumptions. Let's assume that god is real, god created me, and atheists go to hell.......So, I have to assume that A. God is cruel. or B. God isn't real. Faith writes:
Human beings were made in the image of God, that is, with God's moral and intellectual qualities, but Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ever since then we are flawed, we are spiritually dead to God and our moral and intellectual abilities are distorted.Brian writes: I can, Brian! and we won't have to pay off Peter, either!
The only conclusion, under the premises of the OP's argument is that God is cruel......According to Christianity, salvation comes through Jesus Christ. I think Jesus was either a con man, a self deluded nut, some sort of social reformer, or a phantom. I can't see me checkin in at the pearly gates. creavolution writes:
I respect a good critical thinker!
To believe in something, it has to present itself(or be presented) as something believable, possible, and likely. Otherwise I fear i do not have the capability to believe in it.Dorfman writes: Are you talking about a communion with God? How one member of the family took the blame for the family reputation?
Based on observation, in which you most certainly participate, ALL humanity IS punished when one man commits murder or adultery.Now, all you have to do is connect the dots.
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Legend Member (Idle past 5036 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
Faith writes: All this complaining about the inevitable consequences of our sins and attempt to blame it on God... ?!? ...and here I was thinking that sin and its consequences were defined by God and God alone (1Jn 3:4, Rom 3:20, Rom 7:7). How could I be so naive ? now tell me, who set up this sin / consequences framework ? just so that I can have someone to blame you understand.
Faith writes:
it's God who CREATED the so-called problem in the first place. ...but it is God who gave the solution to the problem. I dig a hole in front of your door and then I give you a thin plank so that you can balance your way safely out of your house. Wow, ain't I good and merciful!
Faith writes: His word is full of advice about how to live so as to avoid the consequences you are talking about. Stop sinning and trust in Him. He is also a healer -- those who trust in Him and pray to Him receive all kinds of blessings, including the healing of all kinds of diseases caused by the Fall. I take it there are no Christians dying from disease then ? or is it that the ones who die horribly just didn't pray hard enough ?!
Faith writes: He also sent His Son to die for us so we can have eternal life. that is so twisted on so many levels it merits a thread of its own. This message has been edited by Legend, 04-08-2006 12:12 PM "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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