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Member (Idle past 5864 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What makes a terrorist a terrorist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
melatonin Member (Idle past 6239 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
I'm sure it does ring true to your ears. Have you found that info that justifies to your ears the bombing four unarmed UN observers yet?
Not exactly the most unbiased source. I think you should read the book by the Israeli historian Uri Millstein. Members of Lehi who were there talk about numbers, not whether it happened.
The story of the massacre at Deir Yassin is part of the Arab tradition and the Hebrew tradition. And in fact, nobody denies: most of the dead in Deir Yassin were old men, women and children, and only a few of them were young men who could be classified as warriors, even though in the Etzel-Lehi meeting before the battle the suggestion (which was raised) of killing civilians had not been accepted, and even though the attackers called upon the villagers to leave the village at the beginning of the attack. On the other hand, there are differences of opinion regarding the number of dead. {A.I. - largely irrelevant}
http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/dy/umilst.htm More Israeli eyewitness testimony... http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/dy/levitza.htm http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/dy/dypail.htm I guess you also believe that the IDF was completely innocent in the slaughter of between 750-3000 palestinian refugees at Shabra and Shatila in Lebanon (1982; when they stood by and allowed the maronites to slaughter them). Edited by melatonin, : add info & Links
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berberry Inactive Member |
Faith writes:
quote: Are you talking about the Howard Dean left or the Pat Buchanan left? Edited by berberry, : Forgot to include the quote from Faith.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I didn't say it was right, the Jewish soldiers lost their head and fired indiscriminately, but it wasn't the cold-blooded massacre depicted, but they were provoked to a fury by the typical Arab cowardice, dressing like women, and their duplicity, pretending to surrender only to fire on the Jews.
Yes I already posted the explanation for their firing on the UN post. Typical Arab duplicity, using the UN post for a shield. I'll post the link in a minute.
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melatonin Member (Idle past 6239 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
So what you are saying is that because there were reports of a couple of arabs dressed as women, the massacre was justifiable?
Meir Pail, who visited the village recounts, "it was noon when the battle had ended and the shooting stopped. The atmosphere became calmer. But the village did not surrender... The Lechi and Irgun fighters... started clearing the houses. They shot with every weapon they had and threw explosives into the houses. They shot at whoever they saw in the houses, including women and children. And the commanders didn’t even try to stop this shameful carnage." Pa’il says that after the parade of captives in streets of the city, some of the men were taken to the quarry and shot. On the 12th of April a medical committee of the Physicians Association visited the village. The members of the committee, Dr. Avigdori and Dr. Druyan testify that mainly bodies of women and children were found in the rooms of houses, riddled with bullets.60 They were not killed by blowing up the houses, and no adult male bodies were found in the rooms. Where is the anti-Israeli propoganda? It is called a massacre by the jewish people who were there. What you read above are war crimes committed by Zionist militias. Edited by melatonin, : No reason given.
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Wepwawet Member (Idle past 6139 days) Posts: 85 From: Texas Joined: |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205978,00.html?sPage=...
Headline: E-Mail Casts Doubt on Claims of Israel Targeting U.N. Peacekeepers
quote: From what I understand Hezbollah was all over that area using the presence of the UN observer base as protection from Israeli strikes. The presence of UN observers in no way implies a safe zone where combatants can run to rest and rearm during combat. Hezbollah deliberately endangered the post by operating in the area. This is war, not hide and seek. Did you know that Hezbollah has attacked UN observers with small arms fire as well? Attention Required! | Cloudflare Do you suppose they have justification? Edited by Wepwawet, : No reason given. When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data. - Henry Morris, Head of Institute for Creation Research
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melatonin Member (Idle past 6239 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
Of course not, anyone attacking the observers should be condemned.
But they stuck a laser-guided bomb right on the observation post, if it was indirect, the bunker in which they hid would be relatively unharmed. It survived direct artillary fire. What do they have armies for? If they wanted to remove the hezbollah fighters, they should have sent in their men with tanks, instead of sacrificing the UN observers. What you are implicitly saying is that the lives of IDF soldiers were worth more than the unarmed UN observers.
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Wepwawet Member (Idle past 6139 days) Posts: 85 From: Texas Joined: |
But they stuck a laser-guided bomb right on the observation post, if it was indirect, the bunker in which they hid would be relatively unharmed. It survived direct artillary fire. What's your source for this attack being made with precision weapons? Last I heard they were unsure if it was an airstrike, artillery or both. I call BS on your contention that they would be safe in a bunker from direct artillery strikes. You don't understand the power of modern artillery and I rather doubt the post was hardened sufficiently to protect the men from a direct strike.
What do they have armies for? If they wanted to remove the hezbollah fighters, they should have sent in their men with tanks, instead of sacrificing the UN observers. What you are implicitly saying is that the lives of IDF soldiers were worth more than the unarmed UN observers.
And you are implying that the lives of the UN observers are worth more than those of the Israelis. I'm sorry, this is a war zone; anyone there assumes a level of risk. Unless you have some sort of proof that this strike deliberately targetted the post with the intention of killing the observers(aside from Kofi Annan's asinine comments), you might want to give the promised investigation a chance to reach a conclusion instead of swallowing the media accounts from reporters that weren't there. When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data. - Henry Morris, Head of Institute for Creation Research
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No I didn't say it was justified. I just said that there were factors you are not taking into account in your zeal to make the Israelis out to be unmitigated evil and the Muslims nothing but victims. If the men set up the women and children for slaughter that is a different picture than the one you are painting. This is what they do when they locate terrorist headquarters and arsenals in civilian neighborhoods and when they swarm a UN post knowing this will draw fire on it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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melatonin Member (Idle past 6239 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
yes, I do believe the lives of the UN observers are worth more than the IDF soldiers. These were innocent bystanders. If the IDF wants to fight, let them fight but not by sacrificing innocent UN observers who are doing a job under United Nations instructions. Australian UN observers have no been withdrawn, the rest to follow - which was probably the aim.
How UN Lebanon post was bombed
BBC NEWS | Middle East | How UN Lebanon post was bombed There was fierce fighting in the Khiam area for six hoursDetails of the circumstances in which the Israeli air force bombed a United Nations observation post in south Lebanon, killing four UN peacekeepers have begun to emerge. According to diplomats familiar with the UN's initial report into the incident, the post in the town of Khiam was hit by precision-guided munition, says the BBC's Paul Adams in Jerusalem. The report says there was fierce fighting in the area for about six hours before the post was hit, during which time UN personnel contacted the Israel military 10 times, urging them to stop firing. Our correspondent says the UN claims that after each call, it was assured the firing would stop. Six warning calls A preliminary UN report said 17 bombardments landed within one kilometre of the post, and 12 artillery rounds hit within 150 metres of the structure - four of them being direct hits. After this, the post was hit by a precision-guided weapon from an Israeli aircraft. The Irish foreign ministry said one of its officers in the UN's Unifil peacekeeping force in south Lebanon, placed six warning calls to the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) prior to the attack. "On six separate occasions he was in contact with the Israelis to warn them that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff in South Lebanon," Reuters news agency quoted an unnamed foreign office spokesman as saying. "He warned: 'You have to address this problem or lives may be lost'," the spokesman said. The Associated Press news agency named the officer as Lt Col John Molloy. The bomb which killed the unarmed peacekeepers - Canadian, Austrian, Finnish and Chinese soldiers - hit the building and shelter of the observation post, near the eastern end of the Lebanese-Israeli border, UN spokesman Milos Struger said. Israel has launched an investigation. The UN post was on high ground, in an area once occupied by Israel. The post survived four direct hits from the Paladin 155mm howitzers, then was subsequently destroyed by a direct hit by a precision-guided weapon. The didn't hide in wooden huts. Edited by melatonin, : linky added
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melatonin Member (Idle past 6239 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
Israeli's aren't evil, nor are palestinians. Both are victims.
Radical Islam and Zionism are/were using religion for evil deeds. edit: just had to add - I said that Deir Yassin was a war crime, it was a slaughter of around 100 civilians - people who were there agree. I have not misrepresented this at all. Edited by melatonin, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
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melatonin Member (Idle past 6239 days) Posts: 126 From: Cymru Joined: |
Yup, this situation stinks.
For the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, we now have over 400 civilian deaths in Lebanon, around 40 in Israel. Apparently, this action has been planned for a while.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3958 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
"provoked to fury" is not an acceptable international legal defense.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I didn't say it was, if you bothered to read. I'm only saying it's not the picture that everybody else is creating. They were provoked. Yes they should have kept their cool anyway, but the other side's actions are pretty sleazy, and it is low tactics like that now, putting their own people in danger, that are creating the illusion that Israel is in the wrong when they aren't.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Israeli's aren't evil, nor are palestinians. Both are victims. Ah the usual PC formula, just a statement of faith. But this isn't about people, Palestinians vs. Israelis, it's an ideology vs. national interest. I'm not saying Israel is always in the right, I'm just saying that the Palestinian cause is trumped up, and fueled by the ideology of Islam.
Radical Islam and Zionism are/were using religion for evil deeds. That is simply not the case for Israel. They are acting to protect their people, period. It is ultimately Islam on the other side that is driving the attacks on the "infidel" Israelis. Zionism aims to establish the land for the Jews, it isn't in itself the reason for war. But Islam is the reason for war against the Jews. The intifada. Jihad.
edit: just had to add - I said that Deir Yassin was a war crime, it was a slaughter of around 100 civilians - people who were there agree. I have not misrepresented this at all. The "men" who dressed as women deserve half the responsibility for that war crime.
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