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Author Topic:   Haggard Scandal
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 50 of 302 (361303)
11-03-2006 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by iano
11-03-2006 8:27 PM


iano writes:
By the way: the most shameful thing that you have ever done in your life? What was that?
I talked a civilian neighbor into enlisting so I could sleep with his wife.
But I did have Biblical precedent for that, so maybe it wasn't the most shameful.
Maybe it was when I was 10, and I called a close black friend nigger so I could fit in with the white kids that were there that day. He gave me a long, slow look, and then just walked away. I think it was the first time I realized I had broken someone's heart. Yeah, that's it.
Drugs and sex are innocent hijinks compared to how we willfully hurt one another. I don't regret a single trip or stolen kiss, but I wish I could go back and spare that heart.
I bet right now Haggard most regrets the pain he has caused to his wife and family. He may worry about answering to his maker, but the shame that stays with you starts in a loved one's eyes.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by iano, posted 11-03-2006 8:27 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-03-2006 9:35 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 11-03-2006 9:55 PM Omnivorous has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 148 of 302 (361639)
11-04-2006 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Hyroglyphx
11-03-2006 9:35 PM


nj writes:
I talked a civilian neighbor into enlisting so I could sleep with his wife.
Yikes!
But I did have Biblical precedent for that, so maybe it wasn't the most shameful.
A Biblical precedent for sleeping with a man's wife? Did you not actually commit the act?
I'm not sure I understand the question. You must know the story of David, Bathsheba, and Uriah? I've already revealed more than a gentleman should--the denouement has little bearing on the intent, whether by Christ's lights or mine. Fortunately, the intended cuckold, unlike the Hittite, survived his military service.
I guess there is no way of finding him again. Even if he lived two doors down you still might not recognize him to tell him that you were sorry for that.
I apologized at length soon after. We soon drifted apart.
A betrayed friendship is like lost innocence; you can regret and repent, and they can accept and forgive, but things are never quite the same.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-03-2006 9:35 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 149 of 302 (361642)
11-04-2006 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
11-03-2006 9:55 PM


Faith writes:
I know it was sin but I don't feel the offense of it the way I feel some other things in my life, the really shameful things, that I'm not prepared to talk about here. I appreciate your confession a lot more than mine.
Thanks, Faith. I find my appetite for the unvarnished has grown since Robin's death.
It seems the loss of each friend and loved one has removed another layer of artifice, and now, at last, just like when I was a child, what I most care about is the truth.
"Tell the truth and shame the Devil," my grandfather liked to say. I understand that better now.

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 Message 57 by Faith, posted 11-03-2006 9:55 PM Faith has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 224 of 302 (361885)
11-05-2006 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
11-05-2006 1:51 PM


Re: Haggard's accuser failed a polygraph test
The reports I read quoted the test operator as saying the amount of stress involved made the results especially unreliable. There are good reasons why U.S. courts do not accept polygraph examinations as evidence, and even those who rely on them (FBI, CIA, prospective employers), use multiple-session results.
Given Haggard's admissions, the polygraph test seems largely irrelevant.
As one writer notes:
Haggard even stopped in his car with his wife to talk to the media to say "how grateful" he and his family are that Jones failed a lie detector test ” at least on questions about a sexual relationship. But the expert who performed the test said the results could have been skewed because Jones was feeling quite haggard, with only two hours of sleep the night before. Jones will take two more tests early next week.
No word on whether "grateful" Haggard is willing to take a test himself.
So the polygraph process remains incomplete. If the accuser passes the next two polygraph tests, will that mean anything here?
I did notice that some evangelicals have begun to blame Haggard's wife for his transgressions:
Writing in his personal blog, [Seattle Pastor] Driscoll offers his fellow pastors "some practical suggestions" on how to avoid the type of temptation that consumed Pastor Haggard. And near the top of his list?
"Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either."
Amazingly insightful pastoral care, yes? Better he should add insult to injury for Haggard's wife than keep his mouth shut and/or accept Haggard's personal responsibility for his own conduct.
The infelicity of Pastor Driscoll being willing to "lean over the plate and take one for the team" is pretty droll, though.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 11-05-2006 1:51 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by nwr, posted 11-05-2006 3:19 PM Omnivorous has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 225 of 302 (361886)
11-05-2006 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by iceage
11-05-2006 2:25 PM


Re: absolute morality is all relative
"Turn the Other Check"
That's what I wish my mortgage company would do on occasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by iceage, posted 11-05-2006 2:25 PM iceage has not replied

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