Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill?

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You know who is most resistant to this sort of change in the botanical drug industry?

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Anyone who stands to make big money off of either industry. I could die from lack of surprise. But we don't want congress to go the wrong direction. I want the freedom to choose.Anything used incorrectly can cause harm, whether it's an herb or an over the counter drug.

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Given this fierce resistance to having to demonstrate their products' efficacy and safety, and given their utter lack of any existing reguation, I wonder why consumers continue to trust these drugs at all, let alone think they are better or safer or have fewer side effects than synthetics?

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There are FDA regulations :
Dietary Supplement Health and Education ActIf the manufacturer makes a claim of curing a disease then the supplement falls under the regulations for drugs. See this request from Gaia herbs. Gaia HerbsHerbs in fresh form still fall under regulations regarding food.If the herb is used correctly, what side effects have you heard of for any specific herb or supplement?Personally, I'd prefer not to put something in my body that is made from something I wouldn't normally choose to ingest. Synthetic Alcohol in Foods
Synthetic Iron OxideWhile the label may say synthetic, they don't say what it was derived from. Supplements have the same problem. Any time we have to deal with something that someone else has prepared we run the risk; but all people don't have the means to grow all their own nutritional or medicinal needs.There may be times when a synthetic drug is necessary, but if there is a natural possibility; I want the right to choose what goes into my body.People are allowed to smoke harmful cigarettes if they choose, even though they are warned of the possible harm.Cigarettes used to be considered safe. In the mid 50's one doctor even prescribed smoking a cigarette a day to avoid nausea when sitting in a room where people smoked.I want the right to choose my form of health maintenance, whether it is a combination of MD, ND, nutritionist, or sports therapist.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

And your point is what concerning ephedra stems for hayfever? Ephedrine Group Alkaloids - ProhibitionHe's mixing up a remedy for hayfever, not putting it in a dietary supplement. (A dietary supplement is a product taken by mouth that contains a "dietary ingredient" intended to supplement the diet.)

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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The only thing I want is some sort of "truth in labelling laws" so that, whatever you might think these things do, you at least have access to information about what they actually do do (and what they don't do).

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There are FDA regulations :
Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, Public Law 103-417, 103rd Congress which stated: There shall be established as an independent agency within the executive branch a commission to be known as the Commission on Dietary Supplement Labels (hereafter in this section referred to as the "Commission")..The membership shall include: (See the link for actual members) This commission transmitted its final report on November 24, 1997. I can't list all their specifications here, but here is a link to the FDA's Dietary Supplement Proposal.Is there a supplement that you feel is not follow the guidelines?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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Yeah, so they cheat.

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I don't see where any of your links have a dietary supplement with a claim from the manufacturer. What I see are claims of people, not manufacturers about their product.Disclaimers are there just like on cigarettes. Ultimately people have to make their own decisions.

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This is because they are liars, swindlers, and crooks.

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Yes truth in advertising would be nice, but then that goes for anything someone is selling.

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You might also check out Black Cohosh (also known as Black Snake Root, Bugwort, Bugbane, Squawroot, Rattleweed, Rattle Root, and Cimicifuga). This causes cancer: a look round the Internet shows that herbalists are still selling it.

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Black Cohosh May Increase Breast Cancer SpreadWhich would make sense since Black Cohosh contains phytoestrogens. Breast cancer in the women I've known have been estrogen related. So I can see where it would aggravate, but the study didn't prove it would increase one's risk of cancer.Personally, I never found that it helped any. Of course there were menstrual pain relievers that worked great for some women, but didn't help me.Individual's need to be aware of the disease risks of their heredity and environment.If a supplement is hazardous, it is the job of the FDA to take action.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

As long as we have to rely on others for food, drugs, supplements etc., there will always be a risk. Drugs Marketed in the United States That Do Not Have Required FDA ApprovalSupplements have to list ingredients or additives, just like the food I eat. I do my research and make my decisions accordingly.Assuming that I consume anything advertised is erroneous.Advertisement has a purpose and we have to discern what is necessary and what isn't; whether it is drugs advertised on TV, dietary supplements, or what foods will help lower cholesterol.My dentist and MD don't usually give me that option. They use what they deem is best.Yes understanding basic human physiology is necessary and plays a part in what I decide to ingest. My decisions aren't based on an overnight whim. It is many years of dealing with various doctors on serious illnesses and some not so serious. They are also based on information gleaned from agricultural information associated with raising cattle, chickens, etc. Realizing that what FDA allows under a terminology isn't necessarily what we think it is.A lot of factors and personal experience go into my decisions. I could be wrong and I could die tomorrow, but that is a risk.I can trust the doctor and I could also die tomorrow, but that is a risk.We all choose the risks we are willing to take.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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That's true, but based upon what you have written in this thread, I honestly do not think that you truly understand the magnitude of the lack of information on these herbal drugs.

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The information simply doesn't exist to know enough for anyone to make an informed decision about most of them.

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Choose one and the problem I am supposedly going to use it for and I'll try tell you why I would or would not use it.Just remember, I don't have any life threatening illness.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Never heard of mangosteen, but here goes.Excerpt from: The New Complete Medical and Health Encyclopedia 1987, Edited by Richard J. Wagman, M.D., F.A.C.P, Assistant Clinical Professor of Medicine, Downstate Medical Center, NY, NY. According to your QuackWatch, Mangsteen is just a tropical fruit juice. There doesn't seem to be any danger in it, plus according to the medical world there is no cure for osteoarthritis. Just pain management through "aspirin" and exercise.So given all that, if I had osteoarthritis and I drank mangosteen (and actually liked the taste) and it stopped the pain; I would continue to drink it.But there has supposedly been a breakthrough concerning Pomegranate fruit extracts which might slow down the inevitable. As far as safety, the juice still falls under the guidelines for safe foods. So it should be considered as safe as any other fruit juice I buy in the store.Aspirin and other anti-inflammatory drugs can cause stomach problems.So the fruit juice has a lower risk of causing another problem besides the one I already have.Do you find a flaw in my reasoning?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Then you should have been more specific as to what you were talking about. All you said was mangosteen. I found juice and gave you my thoughts on the juice. If you have links to the skin, then provide them and I'll look at it.What I looked at was a fruit juice and it still has to fall under the FDA safety regulations for food. So as a food it is safe.Do you feel cranberry juice is unsafe to drink or any other fruit juice?

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Unless you were in a carefully controlled clinical experimental situation, you would have no way of knowing if the mangosteen was the reason that your pain stopped or was reduced, so it would be an error to say that it has any effect.

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Lack of pain is lack of pain, whether the juice did something or I "imagined" it.I feel there was enough information for me to make an informed decision concerning my "condition". If you prefer to wait for studies that would be your choice.Again, given that it is a fruit juice covered by FDA food regulations and given that there is no cure only pain management, do you see a flaw in my conclusion concerning the mangosteen juice?

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We also do not know if it ... interferes with any other drugs or foods, what the active ingredients are, or, if it is effective, what amounts of it should be ingested.

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Do you know that about any other fruit juices you drink before you decide to drink them?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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The juice of the opium poppy seed capsule - its fruit - isn't real safe in any significant quantity. Same with Jimsonweed, mistletoe, jasmine, nightshade, yew, elderberry.....

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Just because it's a "natural" product doesn't mean it's good for you.

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I've never claimed that anything natural is automatically good for you. I'm quite aware that there are poisonous plants and animals that aren't fit for consumption.Are you saying that the FDA allows these juices to be manufactured and sold in the U.S. for general consumption?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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If I was on any other medication, I would want to know that, yes.

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But our scenerio didn't include being on any other medications. Having osteoarthritis dosen't mean I have any other medical problems.Anyone taking multiple medications, herbs, supplements, etc. should always do their homework. There is a book called: Vitamins, Herbs, Minerals, & Supplements; The Complete Guide by H. Winter Griffith, M.D. 1998. It includes known interactions, usage information, warnings, known effects, etc.

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One should not drink juices high in potassium, for example, if one is taking diuretics.

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But did the manufacturer of the fruit juice do that research or the diuretic manufacturer?

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The reason we know about all of these interactions is because the companies that manufacture them found out about them during the clinical trials and tests that they are required to do before releasing them to the public.

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You haven't shown me that a fruit juice manufacturer is required to do testing to show how his fruit juice may interact with various drugs.BTW, Xango has been warned by the FDA about outrageous claims.

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How many food and herbal drug interactions do your naturopathic sources know about?

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That's like asking how many food and drug interactions does my doctor know about. It is usually the pharmacist that tells you about interactions, not the doctor.

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The FDA "allowed" Ephedra to be manufactured and sold in the US and it killed people.

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Are you saying that no drug or food additive that the FDA allowed on the market has ever killed or maimed people? They have never had to reverse their approval?

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Thats because there are far more requirements for fruit juice manufacturers to show that their product is safe than there are for herbal drug manufacturers to do the same.

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Please show me that more is required from a fruit juice manufacturer than an herbal drug manufacturer.In Message 117 you claimed In Message 121 I asked that you choose one and choose a health problem I would be using the remedy for and I would explain to you why I would or would not use it.You chose Mangosteen, a fruit juice.You still haven't shown a valid flaw in my reasoning in Message 126 concerning mangosteen and osteoarthritis.Possible drug interaction isn't valid because another drug wasn't given in the scenerio and fruit juices list their contents just like any other food. Don't add to the scenerio.For me the fruit juice, mangosteen, poses no risk. If it didn't work, it was a nice fruity drink.Again, given what osteoarthritis is, that there is no cure, and pain management is the means available in dealing with it; do you find a valid flaw in my reasoning?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

As I've said before change takes time.It took time for the drug rules to get where they are today and it will take time for the herbal rules to get to a standard people can accept.

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How do the effects become "known"? In the case of medicinal herbs, it is certainly not by any investigation done by the companies who make them.

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You assume. Known Effects

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What about the Mangosteen skin?

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You haven't provided a link for me to check.

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Yeah, it's too bad that the FDA has no power to do more than that.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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That law I mentioned in my last message could be repealed in a single vote, and in fact, never should have been instituted in the first place.

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What has that got to do with change taking time. If one vote will do it then somebody has to change their mind and apparently hasn't yet.

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I ask again; do you find this situation with the regulations to be acceptable?

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No, there needs to be better regulations for supplements and medicinal herbs. I never said they were perfect.ABE: But I don't want to lose the right to choose them as my choice for health maintenance and healing.Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Antibiotics

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Sounds like the immune system is not working correctly, malfunctioning. It may still attack the harmful substances, but is also attacking harmless substances. Candida can weaken the immune sytem. It is known that antibiotics kill friendly bacteria as well as harmful. As the article from the medical news archive stated: Antibiotics increase the growth of the yeast Candida albicans in the gut.Candida is known to be a contributor to weakening the immune system.So is it really unfair to say that antibiotics are a danger to the immune system or must one say that antibiotics only contribute to weakening of the immune system?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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So, I would conclude that the claim that antibiotics are a danger to the immune system is not terribly accurate.

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And that is your choice. I conclude otherwise and choose to stay away from antibiotics as much as possible.My concerns are not unfounded or unreasonable.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz