The Unbended Curved Bar Space Slugout Thread

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And it's been soundly refuted. Can you do any better? LOL!

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In fact I was referring to my answer. Which has NOT been refuted. Unlike your iron bar argument. Yes I DID notice that my question went unanswered. And without a genuine, honest answer to that question your argument is dead.

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1a : free from curves, bends, angles, or irregularities

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b : generated by a point moving continuously in the same direction and expressed by a linear equation

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As I said, it depends on what the definition relates to.
a. = 3D
b. = 2D
4D equates to b. or 2D for the reason I have stated and substantiated.

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Strictly speaking b applies only to 2D. But it is nonsense to say that it applies to 4D any more than 3D. (In fact it is obvious that it cannot apply to 4D but not 3D since 3D geometry is a subset of 4D.). However, b can be extended easily enough to deal with 3D and 4D.

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Obviously you have NOT stated or substantiated any such claim anywhere in the thread. (How can you substantiate a claim that any knowledgeable person can see to be false anyway ?)

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Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

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Suppose my 3D not bended straight bar model were to extend suddenly (abe: from 3 ft.) to beyond the edge of the universe.
1. What could possibly stop it or curve it?

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2. Abe: Would it's ends connect?

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Assuming a closed universe, that the bar is straight in our three dimensions and that it doesn't have magic properties that let it break out of our three-dimensional space:1) It would run into itself. Even if it was curved it would have to do that eventually.2) If it was straight, they would.

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don't see that as a forthright answer. Your answer isn't making much sense. How about rephrasing it for clarification.

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It's a perfectly forthright answer. Given the stated assumptions that is what has to happen.
It would make no sense for anything else to occur.

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Since time wouldn't be a factor, we need to know what causes the bar model to allegedly curve and it's ends to connect.

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You've already had the explanation. In our three-dimensional space the bar does not curve. It has to follow the curvature of space because it cannot break out of our three dimensional space. Therefore if the curvature of space is such that a straight line must meet itself the straight bar must do so as well.This has been explained to you before. You have tried to refute it by babbling nonsense, and it is probably why you are also talking nonsense about the dictionary definition of "straight".

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As I understand it, you people have been agreeing that a 3D model would not curve without the time dimension causing the curvature.

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Your "understanding" is rooted in your repeated misrepresentations of Straggler's posts. Straggler has explicitly stated that he is NOT talking about the curvature of space.TIme as a dimension is not directly related to the curvature of space.

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Abe: If space did indeed curve, the bar would overpower the curvature and remain uncurved and not bended. If the bar curves with alleged curved space, the length dimension of it remains straight in one direction and bends in the other direction. The bar becomes a ring and no longer straight. You can't deny that the bar will be bended if it curves. That's the logic that I cannot just wave off and dismiss to satisfy GR science.

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Your "logic" has already been answered in this thread. If you only demand that the bar is straight in our three-dimensional space (the only possibility for a real iron bar) your "logic" fails, because it will join up, with no "magical" or "illogical" properties required. If you demand that it be straight and defy the curvature of space you are demanding that your bar has "magical" and (what you would call) "illogical" properties and becomes irrelevant to the question of whether space actually does curve - so again your "logic" fails.

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2. I don't see that as a problem at all. The problem is yours in that my model is going to extend straight continuously and remain straight, nothing; not even curvature of space curving it. Imo, your problem, in the real universe is that my Euclidean model falsifies your GR model unless alleged curvature of space can physically bend my bar to follow the alleged curvature of space.

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And here you are being thoroughly illogical.Assuming you (confusingly) mean your hypotthetical iron bar as your "model" it has to follow the curvature of space unless you assume that it has "magical" properties which let it behave differently from any known object, and break out of our three dimensional space. But if you make that then it becomes irrelevant.To sumn up your argument.1) If the universe were curved (and closed) a sufficiently long straight (in our three dimensions) iron bar would meet up with itself.2) A magically straight iron bar would not do so3) Therefore the universe cannot be curved (and closed).It just doesn't work because 1) relies on the iron bar being ordinary and following the curvature of space and 2) assumes that the iron bar is not ordinary and does not follow the curvature of space.Logically speaking your argument is worthless.I have raised these points more than once, and I'm not the only one to do so. Yet still you cling to the idea that it "refutes" the curvature of space. Even though you cannot defend it - as has been seen in this thread.

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1. That is "has to follow the curvture of space" is based on assumed and hypothetical GR and QM physics which is debatable.

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No, it is based on the idea that OUR space is three-dimensional.

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2. Your bogus summarization of my position is a classic spin job.

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It is an honest attempt to understand your argment - which you have NEVER clearly explained,despite my requests. If it is wrong on any point then please explain.I predict that you won't because are simply lying.Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

What else would you expect from Buzsaw ?He doesn't understand his own question, nor have any idea of what an answer to it could be. (I know, I asked him to explain and he refused).He loves to claim that his questions have gone unanswered, even to the point of outright lying (Message 228)So of course he's going to look for an excuse to reject any answer he's given. And attacking his opponents is one of his favourite tactics (although, of course he whines about people being "mean" when HE is criticised - no matter how much ghe deserves it).