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Author | Topic: Expectations For The New Obama Democrat Government | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3129 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Actually most if not all of these examples are anrchy and liberalism. The results which came about may be more benificial than the previous condition, but the end does not justify the means. In the instances where there is obvious physical abuse and death, for no obvious or justified reason, the government is not acting in a sane manner, so a person has a given right to protect and defend themselves, or have others protect them. Otherwise it should be non violent change that brigs about change in policies. BTW, liberalism is not synonomous with anarchy. Where do you get this from? According to the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
Liberals have typically maintained that humans are naturally in ”a State of perfect Freedom to order their Actions . as they think fit . without asking leave, or depending on the Will of any other Man’ (Locke, 1960 [1689]: 287). Mill too argued that ”the burden of proof is supposed to be with those who are against liberty; who contend for any restriction or prohibition . . The a priori assumption is in favour of freedom . ’ (1963, vol. 21: 262). That is everyone has equal rights and freedoms as outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights drafted and radified by the UN as well as those in the US Declaration of Independence. However, I do agree basically with your premise that change in laws and legislation should be done in a non-violent manner if possible unless it immediately endangers the lives of fellow human beings. Even the colonists initially attempted to peacefully change the unjust laws that were binding against them.
Tryanny in whatever form is not justified, even if you want to start another country. I guess you don't approve of the colonialist cause for the Revolutionary War than? The British specifically said the colonialists were committing tyrany. How about overthrowing apartheid in South Africa? The overthrow of the British in India? The overthrow of colonialism in the 19th and 20th centuries? What about your war in general? WWII? Should we not have come to aid of our allies? Where do you draw the line? For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Offhand, has there been much improvement over when AdminNosy closed down this topic?
In general, things MIGHT be on topic, but only at the topic theme margins. I think messages should more explicitly connect up with "Expectations For The New Obama Democrat Government" (hey, that's the topic title!). Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts. Report a problem etc. type topics:
Report Technical Problems Here: No. 1 Report Discussion Problems Here: No. 2 Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], [thread=-19,-337], [thread=-14,-1073] Admin writes:
It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon. There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot. Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source |
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5528 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Buz writes:
Decriminalizing marijuana, I should think. The War On Drugs can continue, but he would do the states a big favor by decriminalizing pot. Out here in the Pacific Northwest there is a very lively agriculture of marijuana. I've heard of tax revenue estimates for the state of Washington from the legalization and sales of marijuana to be so high it could fund the entire state's educational system. NORML makes bigger claims than this. For the sake of the desperately needed tax revenue, and for the sake of relief in law enforcement, courts and penal institutions, I predict BHO/Congress will see the green side of this issue and act accordingly. What can we expect to eventually become reality according to the agenda of the new far left Obama and Congress: And smoking marijuana to get high is not the only use of hemp. There could be a hemp agriculture and industry to as replace wood fiber in paper pulping, and to use it for a variety of other things, including biofuels. So much fuss over a simple weed, and one that could be so profitable for all concerned. ”FTF I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
I think this is a great idea. Over here, they are now finally moving in this direction too, after years of it being illegal but tolerated, they are finally coming to their senses and are moving to legalize it.
I hope it will happen soon. Since there will be benefits for all. Income for the government, and safe pot for everybody. I hunt for the truth
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Sorry to piss on your strawberries, but...
quote: Source If he is appointed, you can forget it. Let's hope not, because I too think that legalisation would be a wise move. Of course the Ramstad thing is just a rumour as yet. Either way, I wouldn't hold my breath for legal marijuana (sorry, couldn't resist). Mutate and Survive. "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4218 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Decriminalizing marijuana, I should think. The War On Drugs can continue, but he would do the states a big favor by decriminalizing pot. Out here in the Pacific Northwest there is a very lively agriculture of marijuana. I've heard of tax revenue estimates for the state of Washington from the legalization and sales of marijuana to be so high it could fund the entire state's educational system. NORML makes bigger claims than this. For the sake of the desperately needed tax revenue, and for the sake of relief in law enforcement, courts and penal institutions, I predict BHO/Congress will see the green side of this issue and act accordingly. And smoking marijuana to get high is not the only use of hemp. There could be a hemp agriculture and industry to as replace wood fiber in paper pulping, and to use it for a variety of other things, including biofuels. So much fuss over a simple weed, and one that could be so profitable for all concerned. I totally agree. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3129 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
I myself cannot (active duty military) and have never smoked marijuana. However I really don't see the big deal since smoking another and probably even more harmful drug, tobacco, is not illegal.
I know this is probably off-topic but I thought you would get a kick out of this article from ScienceDaily Ohio State University scientists are finding that specific elements of marijuana can be good for the aging brain by reducing inflammation there and possibly even stimulating the formation of new brain cells. You can read on but thought you pot heads might enjoy this article. For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Dr. Carl Sagan
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Dawn Bertot Member (Idle past 111 days) Posts: 3571 Joined: |
DA writes:
BTW, liberalism is not synonomous with anarchy. Where do you get this from?
Most if not all activist liberals advocate anarchy through thier actions. For example when Onfrie and others openly admit that they smoke pot and take ILLEGAL drugs they are involving themselves in ANRCHY against the law. If they are not then please tell me what they are doing. Are they simply advocating thier liberalism?
That is everyone has equal rights and freedoms as outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights drafted and radified by the UN as well as those in the US Declaration of Independence. Oh, only if this were practiced it would be a wonderful world. Freedom is not freedom to do anything you want but freedom with in the law. Equal rights are not the right to violate the law in practice or intention. I certainly do not agree with such things as property tax or inheritence tax, but I am required to follow the law regardless of my personal convictions as to why I dont like it or think it is wrong.
However, I do agree basically with your premise that change in laws and legislation should be done in a non-violent manner if possible unless it immediately endangers the lives of fellow human beings. Even the colonists initially attempted to peacefully change the unjust laws that were binding against them. Basically? While I am an American citizen and proud of my country. The colonists were anarchist no matter how you twist it. The other examples you provided do not fall within this category because one nation defending itself against another is defense not anarchy. One nation is independant of anothers laws and rules. I can say this to you because I am not a Squid or anchor clanker as yourself but was a member of a real service The Air Force, ha ha. But swabbies have thier functions as well I suppose, Ha ah again.
I guess you don't approve of the colonialist cause for the Revolutionary War than? The British specifically said the colonialists were committing tyrany. How about overthrowing apartheid in South Africa? The overthrow of the British in India? The overthrow of colonialism in the 19th and 20th centuries? A persons life is not decided in a single action or even several. The colonists were an anrchists. What they were for thier whole life as relates to God is a different story. Situation ethics is a myth and in violation to Gods will. If I lie aboout someone in a closet because someone will kill them if I tell, its still a lie. My favorite Old Testament character Abraham lied to Pharoah about his wife to protect her and keep her, but it was lie nonetheless. Except for insolated icesodents, he was overall faithful to God and called the Father of the faithful.
What about your war in general? WWII? Should we not have come to aid of our allies? Where do you draw the line? You say YOUR war. Do you not agree that we should defend ourselves or others that need assistance from AGGRESSORS? Cavediver would be a prisoner now if it were not for my relatives taking a stance against the Nazis and he would not be able to bore me with his Vacuous speeches, ha ha.
vacuous” ”/vækyus/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [vak-yoo-uhs] Show IPA Pronunciation -adjective 1. without contents; empty: the vacuous air.2. lacking in ideas or intelligence: a vacuous mind. 3. expressing or characterized by a lack of ideas or intelligence; inane; stupid: a vacuous book. 4. purposeless; idle: a vacuous way of life. Ha ha again D Bertot Edited by Bertot, : No reason given. Edited by Bertot, : No reason given. Edited by Bertot, : No reason given. Edited by Bertot, : No reason given. Edited by Bertot, : No reason given. Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
quote: Oh dear. Please tell me we're not going to spend another thread centered on Bertot's own personal definition of a word. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
I for one am not. I've come to the conclusion it is best to ignore him.
Now, anybody have anything useful to say about the topic? I hunt for the truth
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onifre Member (Idle past 2979 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I for one am not. I've come to the conclusion it is best to ignore him. I say let him go...I need the material.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Seems like Obama has been in the news talking a lot about a ~1 trillion dollar public works project.
You can also tell from his pick for Secretary of HHS that he plans on trying to move very quickly on universal healthcare and spending his early political capital on that. IMO the univeral healthcare is something that absolutly needs to happen. If you want to help out the auto industry you can forget about giving them a loan if you are instead going to remove the burden of legacy and current health care costs. We are one of the only industrialized nations that still thinks health care belongs in the free market. In the mean time, our companies are trying to compete with foreign peers who do not have to bear the burden of health care for their employees. We see the results directly, and it is long past time that this changes. If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Jazzns writes:
I thought it was a 500 billion dollar project? has he doubled it? Seems like Obama has been in the news talking a lot about a ~1 trillion dollar public works project. About universal health care: I pretty much agree, over here we of course have it, and I must say to me it is unthinkable that someone who is ill can not see a doctor because they can't afford it. I am still amazed the USA held on to this system for such a long time. I hunt for the truth
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onifre Member (Idle past 2979 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I am still amazed the USA held on to this system for such a long time. This shouldn't surprise anyone. The only ones currently affected by privatized insurance in the US are the lower-middle class and the poor class. Two classes that our government has never been concerned with. Why would they need universal insurance when the people who have the wealth and make the decisions aren't affected by it? You can see how quickly money is poured in to save the stock market, and soon to the auto industry...but not to the health care system. How many people right now i the US could benefit health wise from just half of what is going to be spent to save Wall Street? . When the wealthy feel the pain, laws are changed and government gets involved, when the poor feel the pain, no one gives a shit. I'll be very surprised to see universal health care in the US anytime soon. The Health Care lobby is too strong, and too influential, and all about the money. "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Fosdick writes: Decriminalizing marijuana, I should think. The War On Drugs can continue, but he would do the states a big favor by decriminalizing pot. Fosdick I'm 73 and well remember the days in the US when pot users were few and far between, usually illegal or transient Mexicans, bums and the lowest class non-productive citizens. Problematic drug abuse was quite efficiently dealt with. As well, the Islamic, pagan and Eastern nations where pot was widely used were the poorest of the third worlders. No, what we need is to get serious with the war on drugs, mind the borders and win that war. Dull potheads are irrational and often dangerous, too often problematic to any culture of civilization. Abe: It wouldn't surprise me if Obama is still a pot smoker and that he would work to legalize it in the US. Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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