On this day, let us all be proud of America

I should have been more clear. It's not just the candidates that are the targets of christian slanders. There was a case in the 90s where a gay man's home was burned down by some bigots. His dog died in the fire. The homophobic mayor of that town, in defense of those who burned this man's house down, said on the news that the man was doing some satanic rituals with his dog. Buz, it's not uncommon that you religious right come up with weird lies to slander people you don't like. Accusing Obama of being a muslim secret agent out to destroy America is just one example out of many.But if you must, have you already forgotten the accusations from the religious right that Kerry and Edward were gay?Added by edit.I'll try to dig out the documentary about the various homophobic comments made by christians like you on the news over the years. If I find it, I'll post some of it on youtube. Been a while and my basement is getting a little chaotic.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

IMO any democrat that won the party's ticket would have won this election. I dont think its such a great stride that a half-white guy raised by white people in white culture, to succeed in white american society, has succeeded. Its not being pedantic to call out the facts. In any forum here (EVC) you could not get by with saying "but its not my OP to point out the facts here, my OP is to state something based on very vague generalizations, and I want you all to debate my generalizations as if they are the same generalizations of the whole country". If that were the case the creationsts would run amok every where around here.Creationist A: but but but science was not in my OP at all so you cannot use that data against me or you are being pedantic. I am argueing on vague generalizations of a society which is not really defined, and I want everyone else to do the same thing.like always i think you post here for comedic value, because taking your double standards seriously is impossible for me. no one ever gets it, beacuse there isn't much to get, when the premise is false.

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IMO any democrat that won the party's ticket would have won this election.

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Possibly, but irrelevant. In 1956, no Black could ever have even made it to a major party ticket, and if he had, he would have lost to Carabell the Clown. Thus, we have progressed.

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I dont think its such a great stride that a half-white guy raised by white people in white culture, to succeed in white american society, has succeeded.

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And you're entitled to your opinion. I strongly suspect your opinion is heavily influenced by the fact that a Dimwitcrat won, and if it had been Clarence "Uncle" Thomas you'd be singing a different tune, but that's just me.

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like always i think you post here for comedic value, because taking your double standards seriously is impossible for me.

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Fortunately for me, as always, I couldn't care less what you take seriously or what you consider a double standard, particularly since you can't be bothered to say exactly what double standard you are referring to.

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For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Ho....Ly.....Shit.That couldn't be more spot on.For those who think that people didn't vote for him because he's black, listen to this hilarity:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAgor what about this retard:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

I am sure we can find stupid, racist people on both sides of the political divide. I have talked to quite a few pro-McCain people who had no clue what McCain stood for and who only voted for him because he is white.Case in point:BTW, I am an Independent who voted for Obama.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Of course some people voted for Obama because of race.You don't have to be white to be racist. There are black supremacist organizations out there (among other races).It's no different from saying that KKK members would have voted for McCain because McCain is white.Why is that even interesting enough to post about? I thought everyone knew that racist idiots will typically vote for racist reasons given a racially divided decision.

Hi Taz. If you base the alleged racist charge relative to your good parents as I've been rated here, perhaps you're dealing them a bad rap. I don't know. As I've stated I would celebrate over an Allan Keys or Clarence Thomas presidency. Would your parents have any problem with a Clarence Thomas or Allan Keyes president?Tell you're good parents that Buzsaw is joining them in prayers for their prodical son. Be careful, son of praying parents. If their god, Jehovah, the Biblical god is real, he hears their prayers and works in manifold ways to effect their concerns.
Edited by Buzsaw, : change word

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. In fact a whole lot of black racists did so. It reminds me of OJ's black jury. The only thing that mattered to the majority of black (racist) voters, including conservatives like Armstrong Williams and former Congressman, J C Watts. Colin Powell was not a conservative but he switched parties to vote black. Unlike the alleged racism of Buzsaw, the racism of these blacks is for real.2. Speaking of the black supremacists: You mean like the church of choice for our stealth president, Obama and his family, where he hung out, their mentors, and which President Obama supported liberally with his money for 20 long years. The church in bed with black supremacists and awarded their black supremacist leader, Farrakhan the highest honors.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

... interesting stuff. Yes, it is amazing how much false information is put out in politics and how many people swallow some without even thinking about it. Interesting that most of it is so emotional.As noted in Most people vote based on false information most people do not determine if what they are told is true. They base their choice on emotion.We also see false issues made out of things like wearing a flag pin, and whether a junior senator has "accomplished" anything.One thing he accomplished that to me is important is that he saw through the false information of the bush administration and voted against invading Iraq.That level judgment, imho, is more important than making little laws about bridges in alaska, especially when we are talking about someone who will make that kind of decision. This is where I chose Barak over Hillary.I voted for Barak in the primary here because I thought he had the judgment necessary to be president, something sorely lacking in the white house for the last 8 years.Yes, I worried about bias and the racist intolerance seen in those videos, and still am - I remember Kennedy, saw him speak, know where I was when he was killed - but the same also applies to Hillary, not just the sexist misogynists, but the bumper-sticker mentality people and the history of clinton hating republicans. I've also lived in the south and seen first hand the thin veneer of pretend tolerance over old prejudice.But I decided that I could not let my concerns about other people's racism color my choice.Barak also said he would close Gitmo, an issue that is critical to regaining America's heart and soul.Barak also said he would end the war in Iraq, an issue that is critical to the US regaining credibility in world politics.These are issues of character and judgment that are critical to the office of president.Then there is the issue of the economy. What we saw was the failure of the economy from the bottom up. The absolute and complete refutation of the false republican economic "theory" of trickle down economics. We've seen the Botch Administration throw more money at the top of the economy, clueless as usual, and we see that this has accomplished nothing.Where McCain stood on all these issues was, in my opinion, on the wrong side. I've also seen him equivocate on his earlier positions, and I lost respect for him.I've seen the election process skip over good people and pick some that are less, imho, suited for the task of president, but this time I think it worked.I've seen the "oh poor me" criticism that it is all fakery a popularity cult and the silly comparisons (Gandhi is bad?), but what I see is a lot of recognition of the qualities of a good leader.And this day I am proud to call Mr Obama President.Because of GitmoBecause of IraqBecause of demonstrated good judgmentAnd because he also speaks in complete sentences.Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Be reminded that way back during the primaries I warned that Obama would undermine the War On Terror. I had no idea he would blatantly and suddenly end warring with terrorists as one of his first actions as Commander In Chief of the War On Terror. Of course, my thinking was that Obama is still in bed with his religion of birth, Islam.No surprise to me. Ye koolaid drinking lubbers of Obama, can't you connect the dots as to why Hammas and the other Jihadists supported stealth Obama. Edited by Buzsaw, : embolden for emphasis

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

When the Gitmo terrorist's eventually are released by BO, I hope they make good neighbors if one like the one who's now Ben Laden's right hand terrorist becomes your neighbor?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

And a ton of white racists also voted for McCain. Your point? I think the OJ trial was a trajady of justice as well, but let's be realistic who has the longest record of racial prejudice and injustice? I would venture it would be the white population of America. Should I bring up the 100+ years that blacks couldn't even vote because of legislation by white America. And how many blacks who were tortured and lynched by all white juries, mobbs and posses? Should we bring this up as well? He didn't switch parties, I would venture that he voted who he though would be a better candidate for President and leading America than McCain. Are you God that you can see into his soul and KNOW why he voted for Barak Obama. I think a 4 star general, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War (the highest military office in the United States), National Security Advisor, and Secretary of State is above being a racist. Here are his words on the subject: Here is are some other reasons that influenced his decisions: and and in reference to Sarah Palin: So are you calling Mr. Powell a liar as well as a racist? This concerned me as well and was one of my concerns for voting for Obama as well. However, after much research I found out that McCain is not innocent on this issue as well i.e. close association with white supremist Richard Quinn as a political advisor during his 2000 Presidential campaign. Unfortunately sometimes we as human beings associate ourselves with people that will later down the road, bite us in the ass as in the case of both Obama and McCain. That does not mean you necessarily adopt those same views.I don't think either McCain or Obama are racists. I have much respect for McCain, I just think that Obama was a better pick for President at this time. If McCain had not run such a negative campaign and stuck to his original maverick idealogy (and picked some one besides Sarah Palin as VP) I would have voted for him (BTW my wife did vote for McCain).Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

When has this happened Buz? Since when does closing down a detention center and stopping torture equate to ending the war on terror? Or are you just full of shit yet again?

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soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Buz ol buddy, you need to let go. Those are buzzwords, Buz.Curiously, I had a neighbor back in Michigan that was muslim, who fled from Bosnia with wife and kids, from Slobodan Miloevi and the "ethnic cleansing" hooligans. He used to be a successful lawyer, about to retire, but now he works nights in a factory, with a bad back, yet he has no complaints. He is happy to be in America because of what Clinton and the US had done. He was also the kindest man in the neighborhood, always willing to help or lend things.I've also had neighbors that were the meanest in the neighborhood, always complaining, never helpful. Christians.The problem Buz, is that not all the people put in Gitmo were terrorists. Many were sold for rewards because they just happened to be in the wrong place. No attempt was made to actually prove that they were terrorists. No court of law has been presented the evidence that would tell if they are terrorists - and I have to conclude that this is because the evidence does not exist.The reason I conclude this is three-fold:(1) the Botch misAdministration could have used the propaganda value of convicting a terrorist of terrorism to parade to the world in general and skeptical Americans in specific. Not one such case exists.(2) they resorted to torture to try to fabricate evidence for terrorism, evidence that they would not need if they had other evidence.(3) the Botch misAdministration had the opportunity to show a conservative dominated Supreme Court that they had sufficient cause to detain these people without trial to preserve the security of the country, and the conservative dominated Supreme Court was singularly unimpressed, and demanded that the prisoners get proper justice.Not one of these reasons is consistent with having reason to keep these people, these human beings, caged like dogs, beaten and tortured.So were they real bonafide bloodsucking bomb-their-mothers terrorists when they were incarcerated? The evidence says no.Were they all fighting against the US invasions? Maybe some, perhaps to defend their homes.Are they dangerous now? Possibly. They may also be very angry about being mistreated.Are there some that we should be worried about? Likely, but without evidence, evidence sufficient to get a conviction in a court of law, where they get their day in court to answer to the charges that can be brought against them, that is not enough reason to subvert the principles of justice.But notice please, that Obama is not talking about a blanket release of all the prisoners, what he is talking about is applying the rules of justice to these cases, to provide them with their day in court to answer to the charges that can be brought against them, and to find a place for them if they are convicted, and a country willing to take them if they are not convicted.The likelihood of one becoming my neighbor is very very very slim, but if this comes to be, then I will welcome him to America, apologize for the criminal behavior of the Botch misAdministration, and express hope that he will find America to be a better experience than either Gitmo or Afghanistan\Iraq wherever he originally came from.One thing is clear though, the Botch misAdministration has made more terrorists than the number of people kept in Gitmo, and I would worry a LOT more about those people than the ones in Gitmo.Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Just shut up, sit back, and imagine this for a moment.You've been arrested by a foreign power and shipped to a detention facility on an thousands of miles away from your homeland. You are tortured from time to time for information that you may or may not know. Every once in a while, you get a lawyer who is suppose to represent you. But the catch is the lawyer isn't permitted to see any "evidence" regarding your guilt because, so they claim, the evidence is top secret stuff. In other words, you are held in a detention facility on a foreign land indefinitely without ever being charged of any wrong doing. As far as you and the rest of the world know, you are there because some people you've never met have claimed to have proof of your guilt but such proof can never be viewed by anyone, even your lawyer.Ask yourself this. Does it really matter what you have done in the past?I don't care if you've slaughtered millions and eaten babies for breakfast. You deserve representation and an explanation to why you are held. Even the nazi bastards had representation, and we're talking about the most evil people to have ever walked the face of the Earth.Nobody deserves to be held indefinitely without ever being charged of a crime or given a chance to defend himself. Heck, nobody deserves being held indefinitely without ever be told why he's being held indefinitely.Buz, people like myself aren't that naive. Nobody wants to simply release these people. But at least give them some kind of representation. Didn't your jesus say something like treat others as you would have others treat you?I dare you to tell me straight up that you would want to be captured by a foreign power, shipped to a foreign land thousands of miles away, and held captive indefinitely without ever knowing why you were held captive. Be a good christian and don't try to weasel out of this one.