Not reading God's Word right is just wrong. No talking snakes!

A talking snake Genesis is not that big of a problem to me. It might be the least of the things which concern me.Many of the unusual or miraculous things in the Bible occur in twos. Many times there is at least one other corresponding event. It is as if the Author of the Bible was saying "That's right. You heard me right the first time. And now I'll say something similiar."You have talking animals in twos - the serpent in Genesis and Balaam's talking donkey in the book of Numbers.You have Joshua's long day and the sundial moving backwards for Hezekiah.You have Moses parting the Red Sea so the Hebrews can cross. And you have the Levitical priests stopping the flow of the Jordon river so the people can cross on dry ground.There are other exampls of double mentions of miracles.Now I can understand that, if God wanted to communicate to humans that something terribly foriegn to a human being is responsible for the deception of humans beings, ie. a Satanic spiritual being or fallen angel, He could communicate this by having a serpent animal do its bidding somehow.I must admit that I do not understand why Eve was not surprised by the beast speaking. But I put that on the back burner. We are not always told everything in the Bible. We are told what is most important to our salvation. The Bible leaves some unkowns and hardly ever elaborates anything soely for the purpose of tickling our curiosity.So I accept a speaking serpent acting in some way as Satan's agent or in some way strongly utilized by Satan if not Satan himself See (Rev. 12:9)This is the beginning of man's world and of mankind. The fact that the world has its origin in the divine and miraculous causes me not to be too surprised that spiritual opposition to God also took on a miraculous appearance.When Moses was commanded to do miracles before Pharoah, Pharoah's servants competed with him through their occult arts inspired by Satan.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I prefer to heed the warning of Christ about God's ways of revelation of great truths:"At that time Jesus answered and said, I extol You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants.

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Yes, Father, for thus it has been well pleasing in Your sight." (Matt. 11:25,26)I am concerned that those wise in themselves miss out on comprehension of truth because of self conceit and leaning on their own understanding.Perhaps you should consider coming to the Bible in a more humble spirit for God has "hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and ... revealed them to infants."Maybe the one leaning on "toys" is yourself ? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Don't miss the point now. Though Jesus loves children that is not what that passage is about.The passage speaks of God the Father revealing things to those whose hearts manifest the simplicity of trust. The passage is not saying that God only reveals His truth to the physically young. There was a flood. And unfortunately the kids were wiped out along with the adults.Of course that does not tell us much about their eternal destiny.Incidently, I would be suspicious of a book supposedly by God that had only things that I personally agreed with. God's hand being stayed was manifested in the fact that eight people including Noah were saved in the ark to have a new beginning.The ark was the staying of God's hand in that instance.

We through now ?Let me know if you want me to read your posts. When people say they are through I usually skip over the details of their discussion.

Sure there was a flood. Cultures all over the world have a tradition about such a flood. The collective cultural memory of many civilizations have a tradition about a devastating flood. I think it has some basis in history - in the flood in Noah's time.More important than that to me is the Jesus Christ took the flood of Noah as history. If Jesus took it seriously then I take is seriously.And God was righteous to bring the flood. His judgments are always just."And Jehovah God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.... And the earth was filled with violence. And God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth." (See Gen. 6:5,11,12)God could observe not only the actions of everyone but also what was going on in their imaginations at all times. Amazing.My concern is what can we learn in this age about this divine judgment and salvation extended to Noah and family. For in the last days it will be like the days of Noah according to Christ:"For just as the days of Noah were, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day in which NOah entered into the ark. And they did not know that judgment was coming until the flood came and took all away, so also will the coming of the SOn of Man be." (Matt. 24:37-39)Something at that time came upon the world which the world had never seen. Likewise something is coming upon the world around the second coming of Christ which the world has never seen. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I only said flood.I no longer am concerned with whether it extended over the face of the whole globe or not. A flood is a flood. And judgment is judgment.And I would be concerned if there were no scoffers like yourself to deny what the Bible has told me. The myths that you refer to could conceivably have their origin in what is discribed in the Bible. The question is who copied who ?I think the account was remembered by those saved and was dispersed into the cultures after the flood. They embellished the account according to local needs.I think the Bible has the true account of what happened. And the multitude of myths of striking similarity at times, have the biblical account as the true historical source of the legend. Of there are many floods. There is even more than one flood in the Bible. No one is suggesting that the flood of Noah's time was the only flood to occur and be memorable.The Johnstown Flood/s were also notable. But the Johnstown flood/s do no cause me to say "There therefore was no flood in Noah's time." My reasons for believing in the flood are less geological or scientific and have more to do with the integrity of Jesus Christ.If the flood was taken seriously by Jesus, then I have to take it seriously. The integrity of Jesus is beyond questioning to me.Basically, I came to believe the Old Testament by firstly appreciating the sinless and honest character and wisdom of Jesus Christ. Eventually, I made the decision that if Jesus believed something in the Old Testament, I should also believe it. I wouldn't be swayed by that if it was true. I am not sure it is. My basic attitude is that science is man's invention. And the Bible is God's revelation. First I have to understand what is actually being said by God's revelation. That takes some work. For often people just have traditional assumptions which do not match what the Bible actually says.Now if there is a descrepency between what science says and what the Bible says, I feel the error must be on the part of man's invention. That is because God knows all the facts. Whether it was actually over the surface of the entire planet may be an interesting discussion. The Bible says that the queen of the south came from the ends of the earth. By today's standards that was under several hundred miles away if I am not mistaken.So I don't know if it as global in the sense of modern geography. But it was the world as men alive knew it for certain. They were judged by God. Noah and his family were saved in the ark.And the ark is a type and symbol of Christ."Now these things happened o them as an example, and they were written for our admonition, unto whom the ends of the ages have come." (1 Cor. 10:11) The flood of Genesis happened and was written down for the admonition and instruction of believers in the Son of God."Now these things occured as examples to us, that we should not be ones who lust after evil things, even as they lusted." (1 Cor. 10:6)In general the Old Testament is needed to see that there are consequences to our sinning. Sin is an abomination to God. And we need to see individually, society wise, and world wide wise, that there are consequeces from from God for sins.I take the flood account as incentive to press further into the experience and enjoyment of Christ.The apostle Peter warns also that in the last days scoffers and mockers will come mocking that the Bible is false:"Knowing this first, that in the last of days mockers will come with mocking going according to their own lusts and saying, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue in this way from the beginning of creation." (2 Peter 3:3,4)The basic prinicple of this kind of mocking skepticism is to teach that there are really no consequences from God for sins. Flat out denials of the flood of Noah's day is probably driven by the desire that there would be no judgment from God for our sins.My approach is rather to study the salvation in Christ rather than to find reasons to deny that God has and will again pass righteous judgment upon the world.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In the real important decisions of life
I trust in Jesus Christ over Robert A. Heinlien.
Though he seems an interesting fellow, and somewhat a seeker in his own life for the truth. You know eventually you will have to put your trust in someone. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Paul means that God looks upon all mankind and sees only two Heads. The first is the Adam of Genesis, the first man. The second is Christ of the New Testament, the last Adam or the second man.Christ concludes the problems caused by the first man Adam through going to His cross. He terminates the influence of what that disobedient first man started. And Christ initiates a "new man". Last Adam emphasizes that He terminates and concludes the damage caused by the first man. Second man emphsizes that Christ is a new beginning of a new man in resurrection.But where is all this benefit in Christ ? How does this termination of the old damaged man come about ? How does the new beginning come about if Christ has done all these wonderful things?"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)We must receive Christ as a life giving Spirit that all this salvation and benefit can begin to operate from within. The salvation begins within the receivers and works its way out. And when I say out I mean all the way out eventually into the soul, into the body, and ultimately into the very environment.Full stop now.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

There is a slight difference in the monster in Revelation and the talking serpent in Genesis.Here in Revelation we are clearly told that the sign has a symbolic meaning. My purpose here is only to point out that interpretation of symbolism is clearly called for. Of course the first verse in Revelation says that it is being made known "by signs" (1:1)First the reader has to consider what interpretations are supplied in the Bible itself for its contents. And I would add that such interpretations may reside in other portions of the Bible beside the portion in which we read that which is being interpreted.Now consider the talking serpent in Genesis. Nothing in the writing informs us that interpretation of symbolism going to be applied. That is nothing in Genesis. However, some interpretation to the matter is provided elsewhere in the Bible.At this point the reader can dismiss this extra Genesis comment as irrelevent as is the custom with a few people on this forum. What the New Testmament says concerning the serpent is not important to them. I don't think that is the way to go. I think the Bible stands or falls together as a complete whole. It is not a hodgepodge scapbook of disjointed fragments of religious wisdom. So I think comments about the serpent in Genesis found elsewhere in the Old or New Testament are important to understanding the talking serpent.Then there is the additional considerations.1.) How far does the symbolism extend?
2.) Could we be dealing with a physical thing with spiritual significance (ie. OT ark of the covenant, animal sacrifices, tabernacle, temple).Does it mean that there was no talking serpent at all? Or does it mean that there was a talking serpent which nonetheless had greater significance than just a talking serpent?Since I don't automatically rule out the miraculous I take the second approach. The account reads like the flow of history yet there is something behind this miraculous talking serpent of much greater significance.If someone is reluctant to consider the latter written Chtristian New Testament on this, I would say that is his loss. However I might as them - "Okay then. Is there an older written book in the Bible which might shed light on how to understand the talking serpent?"I think the place to look would be the book of Job, an older book. Then I would go into a careful analysis of the things SAID by this miraculous talking serpent. Are they reminiscient of the style and content of some other notable spokesperson or spokesbeing in the unverse.I'll stop here.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No rather the seeker for spiritual truth needs to let the Bible interpret itself.If you go chasing after Sumerian and Hittite mythology to get insight into the revelation of the Bible I think you will end up in a diluted confusion.The difference is coming to the Bible as the revelation from God to man or coming to it as a religious scapbook no better or worse than a thousand other sacred writings. You will find that I take the Bible as God's plenary revelation to man.Now Paul refered to "pagan" poets and philosophers in the books of Acts. And sometimes the Bible will make a passing comment like this. But it is the teaching of the Bible and how those matters are being used which leads to truth.Let the Book interpret itself first. Very interesting. Maybe fascinating. However, I would not let them be a distraction from God's revelation. The people of God were guided by the Spirit of God and did not include all the possible Apochaphal writings in this library. They discerned the difference.I do not like to speak of God's opposition. But but you should know that to confuse man Satan enfluenced a plethora of writings hoping that if these were also in the world man would see God's revelation as just another one of these.Don't fall for that trap. There is a spiritual warfare going on here on earth. The slew of other writings, as fascinatingas they may be, are only there to confuse us and distract us from the genuine God to man revelation of the Bible. I look to the Bible to inform me.This being utilizing the snake had to very intelligent. He seems to speak from experience. His talk is reminiscient of the slanders uttered by Satan in the older book of Job. It cannot be a man because no other people were there beside Adam and his wife. So who is talking?Now I doubt that speaking animals were a part of the creation. Man is said to be in the image of God. The uniqueness of speaking I don't think is shared by man with the other creatures. So who is speaking if not a man or a serpent?An angelic being is the best possibility. But which one? Only two are mentioned in the Bible - Michael and Gabriel. A third powerful being is mentioned called "Day Star". He is also called the Anointed Cherub. This would be the being who became Satan. The slander, the accusation, the envy, the self willed rebellion, all suggest this being.So I think I look first for the Bible to inform me. Why need I run after hundreds of mythologies of Sumerians, Hittites, Amorites, Babylonians to sift through some questionable hints? I barely have time to exhaust the unsearchable riches of the Bible.Look, this other stuff is mildly interesting. I don't we show go there to find out about the serpent in Genesis. I want to solidify my faith and experience of God first. If I have some spare time left I'll take a look at some Sumerian mythology for curiosities. I don't think that it will help. Now God told the Israelites when they went into the land of Canaan, in essence, "Now don't go in there so curious and trying to find out how these people worshipped their gods."We can be deceived. We need to humble ourselves before God and heed His warnings. Moses had all the wisdom of the Egyptians. True. But it didn't dilute him and distract him from serving God.God is like a wise parent. He knows you could get confused if you go looking for the meaning of His word in Sumerian religion. Even in the Old Testament before Paul, you had the realization that demons were behind some of the idols. We can inderstand some things. And I know Bible teachers who I trust who know a great deal about these things. G.H. Pember and Donald Barnhouse knew a lot about religions of the Canaanites. They did not allow it to be a distraction from the revelation of the Bible. For sure Adam was told that he would have dominion over all the creeping things and over all the animals. That should have caused him some concern when one of them challenged God's directions.Adam relinquished his sovereignty over the creation up to Satan. We've been suffering ever since.The serpent went through the weaker vessel of the woman. I did not say she only was weak. I said she was weaker. The subtle enemy of God used the weaker vessel of the woman as a channel to derange God's plans. Will it give me more Jesus ? Unless human history is grounded in the miraculous.
I believe that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.I think man started off in this world with a miracle. That Person who formed the clay into a man shape was Christ before His incarnation. I belief He was walking around there and formed man of the dust and made man alive. That was God who did those things.I have to account for the miraculous in the beginning of human history. So the speaking serpent was the evil counterpart of this divine and miraculous goings on. That is how I feel today.But if I see Golden Bough, I'll take a look at it. It does teach that such things are not typical or normal. But that it happened once is taught. The beginning of on this earth is a very unique time. If you play around with the story trying to make it say something else you arrive at more problems. Nothing in Genesis three seems to call for us to stop the clock and transcend into some higher plain.Cain moved East of Eden. Tilling of the ground, arguments and murder follow, gving birth to babies followed. After the episode with the serpent very down to earth matters are related. The flow of history after the event is practically seamless.The identity of the serpent is specified in Revelation in totally unambiguous terms. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

That is not the only matter I see of importance there. It is one.More basic is that God created man in the image of God and commited him to have dominion over the Creation of God. These two words are very important when we talk about the meaning of human life -image ... dominion God created man to express God and to represent God and to be a deputy authority of God.The forming of the woman from the man and then bringing her back to the man for marriage is very very significant. This is a window into the eternal purpose of God. The Bible ends with a marriage of God and His redeemed people to be one romantic couple for eternity.Adam and his wife are a little window into Christ and the church.Enter a marvelous book The Glorious Church by Watchman Nee:This book really changed my life -Titles A-Z | LSM Online Publications That is the last Adam, the second man."The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)The last Adam Jesus Christ transfigured Himself into a form in which He can, after forgiving our sins, may enter into the very kernel of our spiritual being. And they are matters of Reality, Truth, and true Truth. Belief can be belief about what is real. I wouldn't argue over this. Snake may not be the best English equivalent. I'll give you that.I think it is a very minor point. To be able to read it in Hebrew could be very helpful indeed. I wish I could.However, King Saul's Hebrew was up to par. It didn't help him to stop murdering God's priests of hunting David's life for total envy.Korah and company probably had good Hebrew speaking skills. It didn't stop him from instigating the murmerers from stoning Moses and returning to Egypt.So we still need the Holy Spirit.Have to go now. Sorry. I'll read the rest latter.

I don't insist on calling the creature snake.What is important to me is that way before 900 AD we have this inspired word of the New Testament informing us that Satan the Devil was behind the serpent in Genesis 3. Pretty clear isn't it ?The ancient serpent was the Devil and Satan who deceives the whole inhabited earth. Now if a actual animal I would take it to mean that the evil spirit utilized the beast above all the others to speak and carry out his deception of Eve.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I am listening. But look carefully how it READS. A creature was speaking. I think Satan was using the creature. Are you talking Genesis or Revelation? That may be true. But why do you assume that that fact if it be so, enflences the prophetic writing of the book of Genesis?That there was plenty of demonology in the ancient world is not disputed. Why do you find it necessary that that fact has to be the driving enfluence behind Moses in his writing of Genesis? (I think Moses wrote Genesis). So you do not think a conversation between the woman and the serpent actually took place ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

But there WERE no religions. There were no other people or other cultures.These were the first two human beings on the planet. Religions of any kind had not started.The inventor of the first human religion was CAIN. He rejected God's revelation and concocted his own way to approach God. That was the first human religion.