Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Pick and Choose Fundamentalism
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 149 of 384 (514407)
07-07-2009 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by GDR
10-26-2007 11:23 AM


I'm a pickin and I'm a choosin
anglagard writes:
A recent off-topic reply of mine at Message 155 has got me to thinking about how Biblical fundamentalists pick and choose what portions of the Bible that one should live by and what portions one is allowed to ignore.
I have noticed that according to Biblical Christians (using jar's term) one book in particular, Genesis, is considered literally inerrant, yet other books, such as Deuteronomy or Leviticus can just be ignored depending upon the personal whim of the fundie.
Why don't all fundamentalists of the literal and inerrant persuasion look like this guy? Online Bookstore: Books, NOOK ebooks, Music, Movies & Toys | Barnes & Noble®
So what gives? What is the rationale for worshiping each word in Genesis and ignoring what one does not like in Leviticus or Deuteronomy?
I have never believed that Genesis was word for word literal.
Jaderis writes:
Again, why do some Christians take up such arms against sins such as murder, theft, adultery and homosexuality, but brush aside sins such as working on the sabbath, back-talking your parents or eating unclean foods?
If Jesus came to fulfill all the laws and we are all sinners anyway in need of salvation through Jesus, what's all the hubbub about?
Good point. I don't even try to fulfill all laws...only ones that resonate within my conscience. I suppose in that regard, I am a pick and chooser. If it is midnight, and I am at a traffic light that is red, and no cars are in sight, I may run the light with no pangs of remorse. (treating it as a four way stop)That is picking and choosing my interpretation of that law. Legally, I am wrong. Practically, I followed my conscience.
the suspended spider writes:
what people choose to follow or not follow is a personal decision, between them and their god. the problem is that they just can't leave it like that for other
people.
I'm getting better at that!
PaulK writes:
They (Biblical Christians or Literalists) don't read for comprehension. They read to find things that back up their own beliefs.
I think that it is human nature to quote mine in order to support a point or line of reasoning. The problem is, as has been mentioned, that none of us have read the entire Bible in an unbiased attempt to understand the cultural context.
GDR writes:
The devastation of Jericho was carried out by people who wanted to justify their actions by saying that God had commanded their actions and they recorded it that way.
That's also my interpretation of it. Just because someone writes that God commands them to do thus and such is in no way proof that God was directly involved in the decision at all! And yes, I am interpreting text my own way...I am again picking and choosing. That's just how I roll. I discriminate which literature to quote in any given post because...well...that's how I express myself!
Edited by Phat, : spellcheck

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by GDR, posted 10-26-2007 11:23 AM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by ochaye, posted 07-07-2009 11:00 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 151 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 11:15 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 152 of 384 (514413)
07-07-2009 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Brian
07-07-2009 11:15 AM


Re: I'm a pickin and I'm a choosin
Brian writes:
So, so you take any part of Genesis literally?
Only the very first line:
quote:
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
I believe that the universe, matter, thoughts, chemicals, elements and all other forms of matter and energy did not exist eternally but, rather, were created at some point.
To me, it is more logical to believe in an eternally existing Creator rather than the concept of eternally existing matter/energy.
As to the characteristics of such a Creator and as to whether this Creator has to be eternal, personal, and friendly (or not) I leave that discussion open as a sub topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 11:15 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 12:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 154 of 384 (514430)
07-07-2009 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Brian
07-07-2009 12:12 PM


Eternal Non-Living Matter Defined By Living Intelligence?
Brian writes:
You do also know that it is illogical to rely on a factor that you have no idea whether that entity exists or not?
Yes, I admit that my belief is illogical.
Think, however, how illogical eternal matter/energy is when evolved living products of this energy/matter attempt to define their own origin as a non living reality even as we ourselves are living!
Thats a bit like putting the cart before the horse!
Edited by Phat, : changed title

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Brian, posted 07-07-2009 12:12 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Hill Billy, posted 07-12-2009 3:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 230 of 384 (515347)
07-17-2009 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Hill Billy
07-17-2009 10:53 AM


Logic (Courtesy of Obi Wan Jar-nobi)
Hill Billy writes:
The reasoning that it is wrong for a human to take a life but not so for GOD is also simple.
GOD is aware of a humans future and would know if repentance is in that future.
Humans are not. Therefore a human, in taking the life of another human is also taking the possibility of future repentance.
So say that a human kills Ralph before Ralphs day of salvation/repentance...
God would still "foreknow that Ralph would eventually repent had not he been killed by another human. So if God condemns Ralph for not yet repenting (since he was killed beforehand) doesnt that make God a bit stupid or evil?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Hill Billy, posted 07-17-2009 10:53 AM Hill Billy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Brian, posted 07-17-2009 12:03 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 241 by Hill Billy, posted 07-17-2009 4:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 247 of 384 (515408)
07-17-2009 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Hill Billy
07-17-2009 4:49 PM


Re: Logic (Courtesy of Obi Wan Jar-nobi)
Hill Billy writes:
Who is this "Jim" you refer to?
All I will say is that he hangs out at this forum. We have some interesting debates as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Hill Billy, posted 07-17-2009 4:49 PM Hill Billy has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 303 of 384 (516035)
07-22-2009 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by DevilsAdvocate
07-22-2009 6:39 PM


Re: Double standards?
What if some ancient historian were teleported to the current century. Furiously chiseling his observations on a stone tablet, perhaps our ancient reporter would record something such as this:
And it came to pass that on the eleventh day of the ninth month, the holy martyrs from the kingdom of Egypt captured several of the Great Winged Chariots and rode them through the air and they crashed into the Giant Twin Towers of the Amerikites.
And God spoke to King Bush The Lesser and commanded him to go forth and find the great leader of the Egyptian Martyrs from the kingdom of Arabia.
And it came to pass that a mighty Army was gathered and sailed forth from the shores of America and the Amerikites were of one mind and heart, for they feared for the safety of their kingdom.
And Bin Laden, who was the leader of the Martyrs, had journeyed to the land of the Afghan Kingdoms. The people saw his stature and they understood the wrath that the Amerikites had for him, and thus they hid him in the caves of Tora Bora and when the Amerikites rained brimstone down upon him as God had commanded them to do, the Martyrs escaped by night into the land of Pakistan. And Bin Laden was of great height he stood a full 7 cubits high!
Wherever he went, the people hid him, for they knew that he had stirred up the false gods of the Amerikites and that the Amerikites worshiped created things.
But King Bush was convinced that he heard from the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He told his advisers that it was the people of the moon god that were the true idolators, for surely they wanted to crush the blessings that Jehovah had bestowed upon the Amerikites.
Meanwhile, the King of Babylon, whose name was Saddam, helped the martyrs and the noble cause of Bin Laden, for he hated the Amerikites and the famines that they had caused his people. He feared no gods except his own advisers, and he purged the men who got too close to his throne.
The point of my contrived story, written by our scribe teleported back in time, was that each culture had a view of God and wrote as if God was directly influencing them. In actuality, however...each culture is responsible for the killings, beheadings, rapes, and bombings that they do. We can no more blame God in the story than we can blame Santa Claus (who is not in this particular story )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-22-2009 6:39 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 07-22-2009 9:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024