|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
It has been quite a while since I last posted anything here on EvC, I have been a very busy man and caught up by other allegiances and was unable to post something new sooner, but now I have secured a bit of time to kill, and it is in this regard that I have decided to start this thread.
Many a time skeptics will say with a serious expression that there isn't any real evidence out there to establish the existence of the supernatural realm. And they are pretty unshaken about it as well. However there is a church in Nigeria that is proving the exact opposite of what these many skeptics and atheists are stating. This Church is under the leadership of a man who emits an air of meekness when you are in his presence, he leads a very modest life and despite his growing popularity and probably ballooning bank balance he refuses to indulge in the many unnecessary luxuries that this world has on offer. You are more likely to see him clad in a shirt and shorts in preference to a black tie. Who is this man and the church he curates? His name is Temitope Balogun Joshua, but he opts to go as TB Joshua, to his growing congregation he is better known as Prophet TB Joshua. And the church he curates is known as The Synagogue, Church of All Nations (SCOAN), this days the SCOAN has grown to the status of an organization. Wikipedia says of him A Christian pastor, humanitarian and author But who is this man and how does he establish the reality of the supernatural realm? Before I present my case let me make the following statement: There is evidence for the supernatural realm all-around, the thing is when such evidence comes the skeptics’ way the skeptic, which encloses the atheist, merely repels it and only hardens in his skepticism. This is the real problem; skeptics in my experience are in denial of the evidence. No evidence that hints or suggests a conclusion the skeptic hates is good enough for the skeptic. The reality is ‘evidence’ is not the problem how evidence is understood and interpreted is where atheists largely diverge from the theists. Whatever evidence the theist points to as affirming the paranormal the atheist will twine it and morph it so much that it can fit into his world view. Not even once does the atheist stop and attempt to wonder that even though this evidence may be made to fit into his particular worldview as well it may still actually be evidence in support of theism or supernaturalism. Of course when the foregoing happens it doesn’t mean that both worldviews are equally correct it just means that the evidence in reality is evidence for just one of the worldviews and has been stretched and forced to such a degree that it encompasses the other worldview. Now that that has been said let me give this evidence and explain How TB Joshua relates to it. I will point out faith healings as a good piece of evidence for the supernatural realm; faith healings are too widely spread and common to be overlooked, atheist will no doubt try to squeeze them into their materialism box, and they may even actually be a perfect fit, but one thing the atheist cannot do is reject that faith healings do occur. TB Joshua has produced many many results that can only be explained as miracles. Cancers, ulcers, aids all of these medical conditions and more were cured in the open not in secret. Women have also given birth within seconds after being prayed for at this church located in Nigeria Lagos, amazing things I have failed to explain away with my skeptical mind happen at this church almost weekly. Wikipedia says about this:
quote: I don’t want to emphasize right now on this aspect of his life, so we shall move on to the next evidence that is Prophecy. Tb. Joshua (mentioned above) claims to have the gift of prophecy, a recent prophecy of his revolves around the death of the King of Pop M. Jackson. Apparently this was a prophecy made sometime in January 2009, I have looked at the prophecy and it seems valid to me. Wikipedia commented on this prophecy: quote: Here’s what Wikipedia says about his other prophecies, as I read this for a second I believed that Wikipedia is a Christian encyclopedia quote: Below I give a semi-detailed analysis of one of his many predictions. The amazing thing is his predictions are televised live to many parts of the world before they actualize. I think this is ingenious on the part of the prophet so as to ward off claims that he made the predictions after the event in question.
[quote]A Family plane crashOn Sunday 19th April, 2009, Prophet TB Joshua prophesied about a family travelling by plane. This is what he said: On Friday, remember putting it in prayer. A situation where families will be inside a plane - when I say family, like husband and wife, children and others - and something happens inside the air. Friday of the month - put it in prayer and fast. Please fast and pray. Pray for the family. Where are these family going? Where are they going? I’m seeing crash. So, all over the world, if you are moving with family, your children, yourself, please read Psalm 91:7-end. Jesus will be with you. Prophet T.B. Joshua again made reference to the prophecy regarding the family on the following Sunday, the 26th April 2009, saying: Last time I told you about a family that entered the plane. I said the whole family, I saw the whole family -they entered the private jet and the plane crashed. The whole family — what happened? I’m praying, I’m praying that, what would make the family ... if it’s just one person that would go but all the family, they just entered the plane. Where? What happened? On Friday 22nd May, 2009, the tragic news came that a British born Brazilian businessman and nine members of his family died when their plane crashed in Trancoso, north eastern Brazil. All 14 people on board were killed. Recall the words of the prophet, A situation where families will be inside a plane - when I say family, like husband and wife, children and others - and something happens inside the air. Roger Ian Wright, a leading British born Brazilian financier, a founding partner at Sao Paulo financial consulting firm Arsenal Investimentos and ex-director of Banco Garantia, his wife Lucila Lins, and eight family members died instantly when their twin-engine aircraft ditched just short of the runway. Lucila and Wright were travelling to their holiday home at the plush Terravista golf resort in the town of Trancoso in his personal plane, Brazilian officials said. With them were Wright’s two children from his first marriage, Veronica and Philip, their spouses Rodrigo and Heloisa, his three grandchildren Victoria, Gabriel and six-month-old son Francisco, and his aunt Vera Lucia Mercio. Lucila’s granddaughter Nina Pinheiro was also on the flight. All died tragically. I saw the whole family -they entered the private jet and the plane crashed.The King Air B350 model plane, which Wright owned, left Sao Paulo at 6:31 p.m. and crashed at 9:13 p.m, said an air force spokesman. Moments before hitting the ground, the pilot reported that "visual and landing conditions were normal," according to a statement issued by the airport. The cause of the crash was not known. The plane’s pilot Jorge Lang Filho and his co-pilot Nelson Caminha Affonseca and a family nanny, Rosangela Pereira Barbosa also died in the tragedy late on Friday at Terravista Airport in the Brazilian state of Bahia. Reports state that the crash killed at least 14 people, 13 of which have been identified.This tragedy which saw the death of 4 generations of the same family shocked the nation of Brazil and the world. A statement on Mr Wright's company website read: "Arsenal Investimentos are deeply saddened by the tragic air accident that happened on the night of Friday May 22 in Trancoso, Bahia, which took the life of its founding partner, the businessman Roger Ian Wright, and his family members. We at Emmanuel TV and the SCOAN pray for the loved ones of the deceased members of the Wright family, that the Comforter, Jesus Christ would comfort them in the midst of their present sorrow. In the wake of this tragedy, let us remember that everything we have comes from God. Whatever we have now is only actually being borrowed from God. He is Ruler over all. He holds strength and power in the palm of His hand to strengthen and build up all (1 Chronicles 29:12). On Sunday 31st May, 2009, after the crash, Prophet T.B. Joshua led the congregation in the church and Emmanuel TV viewers worldwide in a one minute silence in the wake of the tragic accident. He reminded us that this world is not our home, we are just passing through. God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent and He continues to reveal Himself through His servants, the prophets.http://www.scoan.org/prophecy_39.htm/quote] Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: I'm sorry WHAT! Anyway you cannot make such a void statement and think that it serves as prove for whatever you are trying to prove. You have to do much better than that because a mere void statement will not do. You must provide sufficient reasons as to why you reject this particular evidence as falling short, and why you do not think it is proof or even solid evidence, especially in light of the fact that TB Joshua was right on the nose concerning the second half of the name Universal when he said "But the first name, the beginning of the name, was not clear to me. Versal — I don’t know the company." And he also got the another thing right, that Universal Studious is a company. Note this prediction was made on global TV and was seen by many people days before it actualized. You have explaining to do because a mere void statement as above will not suffice as a proper retort. And also What about the other prophecy which I mention in my first post that one also seems incredibly accurate, in its detail.
quote: I'm not going to do this there is enough proof in the earlier prophecies that he has made that it isn't a lucky guess or a mere coincidence, not the Wikipedia paragraph about the various prophecies TB Joshua has made many of them out of his reach like earthquakes provided with accurate dates. Cheers Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: lol. Your very upset I wonder why? Anyway this is another void statement, you want to refute documented evidence of fulfilled prophecies with a mere statement. I'm afraid that won't happen. Why don't you deal with the point I make in my posts instead of making insults and empty statements. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: And when did the incident happen? On a Friday. I'm afraid this is too huge of a coincidence. and he does give a date 'Friday'. He could easily have said Monday or Tuesday or any other day of the week, but he said Friday and he was right. Tb Joshua also said Friday of the month and asked his congregation to pray on the Friday of the month, it must have been a known Friday in that case.
quote: Families must have been a slip of the tongue on his part, because after he says that he says more than once family and he never says families again. A family can consist of a childless married couple, a couple with just children and no other relatives, a a gay family, a polygamous family, including one dad and many wives or the other way around etc the possibilities are endless. but he clearly mentioned a wife and a husband and children and others. When everything is considered the prediction is too detailed to be a coincidence, and your paragraph below becomes meaningless. also the short amount of time between the prediction was made and came to pass is too short for it to have been a wild guess.
quote: Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: Did you read all my posts if you haven't please do. In one of my post I said that this prophecies are televised live to many parts of the world including North America, and thousands of people across the world hear this prophecies before they happen, there are video tapes or dvd's available online of this prophecies. You can view his channel via cable, its free of charge. If he fixed this dates after the prophecy happened people would have by now come out accusing him about it.
quote: Maybe the author couldn't deny the facts. How about that? Anyway you must verify your claim that the author is a supporter o f TB Joshua as you assert above.
quote: News articles are generally accurate, and TB Joshua's prophecies are mentioned by them, example is African News which confirmed the M. Jackson prophecy. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: Why should I mete out more evidence when you haven't even been able to deal with the evidence on hand, I'm afraid your request for more evidence is unreasonable and silly, What more evidence can I give then eye-witness evidence, thousands of people visit the SCOAN and thousands more view it via cable, I'm afraid you have to deal with this evidence first. I also offered you a at least one news media that reported his prophecies, and the Wikipedia articles serve as evidence.
quote: Your pretentious statements and remarks do nothing to weaken the evidence before you. You can cry FRAUD until your lips turn purple it will not change a thing until you demonstrate with clear proof that any of this prophecies are fraud.
quote: Because you're a case hardened atheist, you have a prior-commitment to materialism and naturalism both which deny supernaturalism. You're a bigot in short.
quote: Where is your evidence for this claim. To salvage your pathetic worldview you will postulate nearly anything, even accusing news articles for carrying false information just because it disagrees with the beliefs you hold dear, not because you have evidence.
quote: It's your business how you handle evidence, I have seen today that you are in reality not after the truth, you are after comfort, you only want to acknowledge the evidence that your comfortable with the rest is bs as far as you are concerned. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: If video evidence and eye-witnesses thousands of them to boot don't count as evidence for you, then there is no point in me having this exchange with you, I want to chat with people who are reasonable and make reasonable demands I don't know what more you're after sir/ma'am. Clearly your definition of evidence is radically different from the definition the rest of us accept. for example eye-witnesses are a form of evidence because he/she can describe what happened since he/she was present at an event and saw it with his/her own eyes.
quote:quote: I wasn't trying to jeer at you or anything with this remark I was merely expressing the impression I you have given me about yourself. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: Your laughing doesn't take anything away from the evidence it only displays your inability to account for what happened, you have been arrested by the evidence and all you can do now is laugh and jeer, typical atheist approach, I'm not at all suprised. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: Your ranting does nothing to the evidence before you, deal with facts and please give up the shenanigans. The prophecies made by TB Joshua not only are more specific compared to your generic prophecy but are documented and recoded even by such trusted sources as Wikipedia. So amazing are this mans miracles that even Time magazine had to cover him in an article. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: I'm not going to present anymore evidence that you will treat just like the current evidence, with contempt, and by the way I'm not basing my case on hearsay, but on video evidence, and on the witness of thousands of eye-witnesses. Deal with the evidence its before you and its screaming out loud and clear. Regarding your so-called abilities where is your evidence do you have it recored on video did thousands of people witness your prophecies on live television and in person. are you cited by such sources as Wikipedia and news articles and Time magazine.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: I'm enjoying the wit that is hatching up in this chat and easing up the tension. But please I plead with you to take a honest look at the evidence I have presented for my case, I too used to be skeptical of the miracles and prophecies made by this man that is before I had access to Emmanuel TV and for myself saw what goes on in this church and I also noticed the great pain taken by the SCOAN to verify that they are the real deal. Making sure to televise every prophecy live, and everyone that is prayed for and receives their healing is visited regularly and their improvement is noted. also I have friends who have visited the SCOAN and have told me that the miracles are undeniably real. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
quote: Are you suggesting a conspiracy of some sort. Are you suggesting that all the random curios folk who visit the SCOAN from all over the world are a part of some conspiracy and are you suggesting that the thousands of viewers are also in on the conspiracy.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
Oddly enough, the remaining 'meaningless' paragraph was the bit where I provided figures to illustrate that the fact that, whilst the prediction may seem detailed at first, the events described (private planes with families on them being involved in an accident on a Friday) are probably not that uncommon that we should be surprised one happened 33 days after the initial prediction. I did look at your figures and they mean nothing at all, they are interesting figures but then again the prophets prediction was rather too detailed to have been a guess. Answer all the points I raised in the post you are dealing with please. When you take them together they build a strong case. Deal with the fact that he was accurate about the day, the type of transport and the type of family and also deal with the time difference between the prophecy and its fulfillment Edited by Cedre, : No reason given. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cedre Member (Idle past 1521 days) Posts: 350 From: Russia Joined: |
Not necessarily. I'm suggesting that a core group of fraudsters can very easily make people believe what they want them to believe. It's happened before, it will happen again. In fact, many people make a living doing just that, both legally and illegally. This si why eye-witness testimony is considered one of the worst forms of evidence. People misremember, they can be manipulated, they can be deceived. For me to believe this, I would need scientific evidence, such as a doctor going with an unhealthy patient, standing there watching the procedure, and then examining the patient. Preferrably, I would like the doctor to be picked by myself, or at leats by someone I trust to find an impartial doctor. Once that happens, I would expect the doctor to write up the amazing evidence she/he has just witnessed and documented, publish in a peer-reviewed article, and get a Nobel Prize...probably shared with the "prophet" since he did the work. Allot of interesting theories yet unproven theories as they relate to the SCOAN. note that this church has many critics and people who want to see its downfall, this is documented too, but so far all are failed missions. Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024