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Author | Topic: An Atheist By Any Other Name . . . | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
ringo writes:
It often seems to be a case of starting at a theistic belief and using one's confirmation bias to convince oneself that one got there progressively. It seems to be that the opposite is also true in regards to an atheist.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Rahvin writes:
The question, then, if we want to resolve which of us has beliefs that accurately reflect reality, is how to test them. Since we are dealing in the supernatural, I don't know how we could test them naturally. I guess one aspect would be the evidence of the appearance of the Blessed Mother at Fatima or Lourdes. There seem to be credible evidence of those two events, but I doubt if you would ever agree with them. I am not going to get into a debate about those appearances because I have not studied them in depth. That is only an example as to how experts in the discpline would attempt to provide such evidence or lack of evidence.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Taq writes: I would just call myself a theist of Roman Catholic belief.
Would you call yourself an Ahinduist? Or an Azeusist? Isn't it kind of strange to define yourself by deities you don't believe in? Edited by shadow71, : No reason given.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
none
Edited by shadow71, : edited prior message
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Taq writes: That seems to be the question the OP is asking. Not trying to be rude but I really don't care.
Quite right. You define yourself by your positive beliefs, not by the things you don't believe in. So why are we called atheists?
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Taq writes: There comes a time when I really don't care what non-believers really think. Why should I worry about a non-believer who recites anti-believer statements such as Sagan that all believers are delusional. Who the hell cares. I will believe what I know in my heart is true. You will call me delusional.
On the positive side, hopefully you have a better understanding of what non-believers really think. Part of the reason for finding a new name for atheists is to break away from old stereotypes and preconceptions. I don't know if this is a good reason or not (hence the thread), but it is at least worth discussing.Will it ever end.?
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
Shadow71, Taq expressed the hope of greater understanding between the two sides. You rejected that. I would hope that you reconsider your ill-considered choice. I am just sick and tired of being called delusional because I believe in God. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Granny Magda writes:
Well no. You have said yourself that no evidence or argument could possibly sway you. In the face of such dogmatism, what end could there be? All I can suggest is that you stop asking difficult questions if you're going to act offended when you receive answers. I ask you to give me a truthful answer. Do you believe there is any evidence or argument that could possibly sway you to that God exists? And, why do nonbelievers on this board and people like Sagan call believers "delusional"?
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Taq writes:
How do you view people who believe in a god that you don't believe in? What word would you use to describe them? I don't call them delusional. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe. I may tell them I think they are wrong. But I don't call them delusional. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Here is the other definition in your link.
Psychiatry . maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness: He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him.
Theodoric writes:
How is that different from "wrong"? When I tell someone I believe his or her beliefs are wrong I am telling them that I don't agree with their beliefs. If I tell them there beliefs are delusional I am telling them they are in false and against all of the facts. To me there is a big difference between wrong and delusional.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
So, we also have the word of an ex-Christian that delusion was a very important part of his former life as a Christian, such that that delusion was what he had to use to protect his faith. Which is in keeping with my opinion: believing in God is not delusional, but maintaining false beliefs in spite of reality does require one to be delusional. Here is the word of one of the most respected atheist philosphers of the 20th century, revered by Dawkins et. al. who found he was maintaining false beliefs.
Anthony Flew writes:
Now it often seems to people who are not atheists as if there is no conceivable piece of evidence that would be admitted by apparently scientific-minded dogmatic atheists to be a sufficent reason for conceding "There might be a God after all." I therefore put to my former fellow-atheists the simple central question. "What would have to occur or to have occurred to constitute for you a reason to at least consider the existence of a superior Mind?" Moving on now from the parable, it's time for me to lay my cards on the table, to set out my own views and the reasons that suppport them. I NOW BELIEVE THAT THE UNIVERSE WAS BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE BY AN INFINITE INTELLIGENCE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS UNIVERSE'S INTRICATE LAWS MANIFEST WHAT SCIENTISTS HAVE CALLED THE MIND OF GOD. I BELIEVE THAT LIFE AND REPRODUCTION ORIGINATED IN A DIVINE SOURCE. Why do I believe this, given that I expounded and defended atheism for more than a half century? The short answer is this: this is the world picture, as I see it, that has emerged from modern science. Science spotlights three dimensions of nature that point to God. The first is the fact that nature obeys laws. The second is the dimension of life, of intelligently organized and purpose-driven beings, which arose from matter. The third is the very existence of nature. But it is not science alone that has guided me. I have also been helped by a renewed study of the classical philosphical arguments. My departure from atheism was not occasioned by any new phenomenon or argument. Over the last two decades, my whole framework of thought has been in a state of migration. This was a consequence of my continuing assessment of the evidence of nature. When I finally came to recognize the existence of a God, it was not a paradigm shift, because my paradigm remains, as Plato in his Republic scripted his Socrates to insist: WE MUST FOLLOW THE ARGUMENT WHEREVER IT LEADS." From Anthony Flew's "There is a God" Hopefully this will awaken the non-believers on this board to follow the evidence. To get rid of your delusions that there is no God. There is a God. Let go of your arrogant distain for anyone who believes in God and get rid of that myth that atheistism has degrees. Quit hedging your bets. Best respects, Shadow 71 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
See message 183
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
See message 183
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
See message 183
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2965 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
See message 183
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