What's wrong with this picture?

Here's the irony of it Rei,The more available and easier you make it for anyone to have an abortion for any reason, the less people are going to concern themselves with the responsibility of enguaging in intercourse and the more unwanted babies are going to be created and destroyed. Is that nessessarily a bad thing? I don't know but it seems that a lot of people in this forum don't want to be called Pro Abortion like it's some kind of Taboo. I thought the availability of low cost safe abortions was a kind and humane gift to desperate women to save them from the back alley shiesters. So if anything, I would think that being called Pro Abortion would be a desirable affiliation because it conveys something positive - compassion.So I don't care if 90% of pro choicers think it would be better to not have to have the abortion, that's an easy way to look good on both sides of the issue. But where the rubber meets the road, it's wishy washy gobbly gook. Brings me back to where I started in this thread, call it like it is. Pro Choice = Pro Abortion = ending a human life. Good, bad or indifferent from the touchy feely stuff makes no difference and I'm not saying it's any of those. The act ends a human life and if it wasn't going to be a human life there would be no need for the procedure. Everyone would just sit back and see what that funky mass of cells turns in to and deal with it later.Removing a damaged splene does not end a human life and removing a Dandelion definitly does not end the damn thing's life - this I can vehemetly attest to. A splene will never grow into it's own human entity, it's a part of the human organ lineup, but the cells making up the fetus are definitly going to become it's own human entity.How are you getting the message icons to appear in the body of your text? I'd like to put some smiles at some of the parts cause as I proof read this stuff I get the sense that I'm sounding like a crazy zealot.

That's a good point and a tough call to make concerning a soul. The physical body aspect is cut and dry because you can detect the initial cells of the fetus with the use of decent ultra-sound equipment. The spirit aspect is also fairly easy to detect, especially when now the EEG and EKG show activity @ 40 days into the development.You can also tell when the body no longer has a spirit when a qualified coroner or doctor legally pronounces them dead. A soul is fair more subjective.I do know that life does not need a soul to exist, just a physical body and a spirit, which is what all of living nature has. If the evolutionary model is used, then there can't be any such thing as a soul because it's only real purpose is to carry the entity of the person into an after life realm. So under the evolutionary model, there is no such thing as a soul and no eternal after life. It's man's religion that comes in and invents those concepts. I don't observe evolution creating things without a purpose so if there's no afterlife, then no need for a soul.Then why would evolution start the creative process of building a human from initial cells without intending to finish the task and make it a human? Evolution wouldn't, every ovum that starts out is intended by nature to become a human once fertilized. Not all make it due to varying dynamics of the enviorment,(actually I think Rei stated that it's only a small percentage of fertilized ovums ever make it through the guantlet of enviromental obstacles, I assume this is evolutions way of ensuring you get a quality product) but it just means that the pregnancy becomes a miscariage.What I don't understand is when man intervenes in evolution and willfully terminates the pregnancy, why all of a sudden is it taboo to call what has just been killed, a human. Why the sugar coating by saying "Well, it needs to be born to be a human or it needs to show brain activity" when everyone knows what's being stitched together by evoultionary forces in the womb. If all it is, is matter and a life force, who cares if it's human? No biggie so why the discomfort in calling it a human.Also, I said earlier that people like the term that we as a human race are showing our finest face of compassion by providing safe, accessable abortions to a desperate group of women. So then say it like it is,Pro Abortion = Pro CompassionPro Life = Pro OppressionThen let the best face of the human race shine forth and be Pro Abortion because the more abortions that can be performed, the more compassion is manifest to an all to often victimized sect of our civilization - women.[This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 11-12-2003]

Pro State Religion is definitely a bad thing. Look at Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia and that's what state releigion will get you. Not only do you loose respect for the unborn, They've lost all respect for human life and replaced it with extremisms.Pro Life doesn't mean that you have your baby and then get right on over to church, kneel down and pray, kiss the Pontiff's ring and then say 3 Hail Mary's or we'll kill you.There's a difference between having respect for the unborn by saying carry the pregnancy to term and then give it up for adoption, verses saying that you must not abort the baby or our God will thump you via the clubs in our hands under the authority of State Religion.If evolution is willing to go forward with the process of building the zygote into a human, and doesn't choose to miscarry naturally, then why not give evolution the benefit of the doubt and see if society gets the next Einstein or Hawkins. Give the child up for adoption and put the ball in the Pro Life court.

That's a real typical come back to someone who expresses a different view, but you need to check yourself sly before you make those comments.First off, you don't know anything about me or just what I'm involved in concerning any of this issue. You just made the typical stereo type assumption that I'm a babbling do-gooder and once I've had my fun I'll flush this web site. If you can post my real name on this forum, my affiliations, where my money and time go and what I do for fun and for an occupation, and prove to everyone here that I'm just spewing vocal poop, then go for it.Otherwise, stop attacking my character and stick to the topic or atleast stick to addressing my statement. I have not and hopefully will not attack anyone's personal character, actions or life history on this forum. I view it that if someone is honoring me by taking the time to read my posts and type a response, they are already held in high esteme by me reguardless of what they say. Now I may disagree with them and you might sense some passion in my writings, but I don't attack them personally. I repect and am thankful for everyone who is on this forum because your thoughts make for a very idea rich audience.I will not put up with having my personna questioned as a cheap street corner sneer by anyone. If you want to start a thread on how to solve and pay for a national adoption agency to stem the volume of non-life threatening abortions performed in this country, then do so an I'll gladly read what others have to say and possibly contribute if I have anything worthy to input without cheapening your thread.

Not woth my time[This message has been edited by Lizard Breath, 11-12-2003]