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Author | Topic: Can You define God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I believe it's likely that GOD exists.
However, as long as I am alive I see no way to provide any supporting evidence of that.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
jar writes: I believe it's likely that GOD exists. All believers in all gods believe it likely (or in some cases certain) that their god(s) exist. When it comes down to it there is nothing to distinguish your belief in GOD from anyone else's belief in any other god/God is there?
jar writes: I think it is very unlikely any god(s) exist except as a human construct. There we have it.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There you have what?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Look jar you are an old dog and you have been peddling this god, God, GOD trick for a long time. I don’t expect to be able to dissuade you from it. But this I’m just being nuanced defence of your self-serving, belief-re-enforcing definitions just doesn’t wash.
The idea that hijacking commonly used terms and redefining them (such that the object of your own belief is elevated by definition above all those other human-construct-god-concepts) is the path to clarity and nuance rather than a method of imposing your assumptions into discussions about the existence of supernatural creators - Is ridiculous. But I’m sure the nuance will continue.....
jar writes: There you have what? The special pleading?
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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What special pleading?
The topic is "Can you define god?" I responded to the topic. I explained MY position. I did not ask you to adopt my position.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
jar writes: What special pleading? The special pleading that discludes your particular supernatural creator from being just one of those other human-construct-gods.
jar writes: The topic is "Can you define god?" It is.
jar writes: I responded to the topic. You responded in the way you respond to any theism related topic. You started bandying around your own self-serving definitions of GOD, God and god.
jar writes: I explained MY position. Relentlessly. And I explained some of the inconsistencies your definitions result in - e.g. a theist who doesn't believe in any god(s)
jar writes: I did not ask you to adopt my position. Oh well that is OK then. I guess you can say whatever you want and we should all just accept it without comment
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
How do you get "we should all just accept it without comment" from "I did not ask you to adopt my position"?
I am and will continue to express and try to explain my position; for example "I am a theist who believes GOD exists and that God(s) and god(s) are attempts by humans who are limited by the fact that being human so far we can only experience or describe anything in terms of what we see in this universe to describe what is actually beyond anything we can experience or describe."Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You are a theist (by any common definition) because you believe in the existence of a supernatural creator being (which is a god by any common definition).
It really is that simple.
jar writes: "I am a theist who believes GOD exists and that God(s) and god(s) are attempts by humans who are limited by the fact that being human so far we can only experience or describe anything in terms of what we see in this universe to describe what is actually beyond anything we can experience or describe." Yes I know what you believe. Quite why you think your personal beliefs are a basis for defining anything remains a bit of a mystery however......?
jar writes: How do you get "we should all just accept it without comment" from "I did not ask you to adopt my position"? Where did you get the idea I thought you wanted me to adopt your position merely from my commenting upon it? Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Too funny.
Did you read:
quote: Did you say "I guess you can say whatever you want and we should all just accept it without comment"? Have I ever said that you should not comment about anything? I presented my beliefs solely to try to explain what I believe explains why there have been so many different god(s) and God(s) presented by humans over the history of modern man.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Yawn.
Ignoring all topic related points and going on a you-said-I-said distraction is another of your much used debate tactics when in a spot. Seeing as we're both still here and both seem bored enough to keep conversing hows abouts we consider the topic from a fresh (and possibly less contentious) perspective? What is it that defines things as "god(s)"...? I (earlier) put forward a definition involving supernatural creators/controllers of aspects of observable reality and you (earlier) intimated that a "god" is whatever people decide to call a "god". With that in mind I'd be interested in your answers to the following:
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If people believe me (or you if you prefer) to be a god does that make me/you an actual god? If people believe you are a god then yes, you may be a god. If people believe I am a god they are simply wrong. I know I am not a god.
If human belief alone is not enough then what are the qualifying criteria for being a god? Human belief is enough to define a god.
Have you ever seen the "Life of Brian"....? Many times. The first time was likely in the very early 80s. Still watch it every decade or so.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: If people believe me (or you if you prefer) to be a god does that make me/you an actual god? jar writes: If people believe you are a god then yes, you may be a god. Well I suppose I might be... But is their belief alone enough on which to apply that term? If not - What else do I need to qualify as a genuine god?
jar writes: If people believe I am a god they are simply wrong. I know I am not a god. Assuming they do believe you are a god - What is it that you are lacking which makes them wrong in their belief?
Strags writes: Have you ever seen the "Life of Brian"....? jar writes: Many times. The first time was likely in the very early 80s. Still watch it every decade or so. Cool. It's a great film. But it highlights the error in defining things in terms of what people believe. JINKY is the omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe (and all else) who happens to choose to manifest himself as a giant purple squirrel. JINKY is a god regardless of what anyone does or doesn't believe. Because being a "god" isn't dependent on human conviction. It's a term we apply to a certain sort of conceptual being (whether it actually exists or not)
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well I suppose I might be... But is their belief alone enough on which to apply that term? If not - What else do I need to qualify as a genuine god? None that I can think of.
Assuming they do believe you are a god - What is it that you are lacking which makes them wrong in their belief? It's not what I lack but rather what I am; I am human. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes: gods, I suppose. And I too tend to use jars description, though perhaps differently than he does. GOD, by definition of the word, is indeed beyond description or definition. The word merely gathers all that power and wisdom and whatever else into a term.
If there is only one God, what does a name distinguish Him from?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Where are you getting 50/50 from? GOD either exists or does NOT exist. Where are you getting "likely" from?
A supernatural intelligent creator IS a definition. Yes, but that is about as far as we can go. though some Christians extrapolate the character of Jesus as well as OT writings at trying to conceptualize GOD. My belief is that GOD is beyond definition or conceptualization...understanding is a better word.
Of course there is a human construct!! How can anyone claim to believe in something if they have absolutely no conception of what it is they believe in? Are you suggesting that an idea without evidence or concept is absurd? Logical, perhaps...but why do you have problems believing in a power greater than the capability of the human mind to define?
The very idea of a conceptless concept is absurd!!!!!
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