Morality without god

I don't intend to create a logical trap for god - so let's take an example, I love examples.I'm gonna assume Christians (or whatever, the denomination isn't important Faith before u go on a tangent) are not bigots, so their objection to homosexuality is purely based on gods decree - would it be possible for god to remove this decree and decide that gays r ok?

So from ur statement in 985 can I assume u do not believe that atheists and similar non-believers r not hell bound?

Just a point of fact: "First born" doesn't necessarily mean children. I'm the first born among my siblings for instance, though since I'm a woman the angel of death would have passed me over, maybe for the first born son, my brother next in line.

The main problem with your defiant lack of belief is that you never will grovel....you deified your own intellect. Sad, that. Edited by Phat, : status

Hell, if Hell exists, was never created for humans. Humans end up there by doing two things.1) Rejecting Jesus Christ,Gods only character in human form...(yes I've heard the arguments against this and don't buy them)2) Following a demonic spirit,often disguised as ones own intellect...which leads the individual to Hell...Im quite sure many will feel insulted by this post...but relax, its the enemy that feels the pain...not you yourselves.

I can't speak for everyone, but I seriously doubt it.The nearest analogy I can't think of is that it's like being told something trivial that a child finds really important; you just have to try not to laugh.

You keep bringing up the child analogy...as if you think that those of us who believe in "Bronze Age Myths" lack intelligence. Look around at many modern day myths...such as the Randroids and their objectivism...and you can see similar childish teachings. Buckley puts it well: In my view, its teenage rebellion writ large that man rebels against God. We seem to think we know how to do it better.

First born does not nessecarily mean children BUT inevitably will harm children and perhaps nonSlave owning Egyptians - its kinda an odd criteria, in fact the primary way that criteria for targeting works is that the Angel of Death is intended to strike down the slave owners children as a warning to the Egyptians

I'm aware that hell was designed for the Dragon and his rebel angels after Micheal struck the Dragon down - If u study it with an open minding could even feel quite sorry for Lucifer, he is certainly an antihero and perhaps would even be a sympathetic character (aside from really really reeeeaaaaaalllly hating humans - although I can understand why the character would)"1) Rejecting Jesus Christ,Gods only character in human form...(yes I've heard the arguments against this and don't buy them)"That would be atheists and nonbelievers then?"2) Following a demonic spirit,often disguised as ones own intellect...which leads the individual to Hell.."Where did this conclusion come from? I'm not familiar with demon's disguised as intellect in the bible, but I don't know the whole thing by heart I'll admit(how does one put qoutes in little boxes????)********************************************************Edit:got some stuff to add,"Would you hold a gun to your wifes head and demand she tells you she loves you""1) Rejecting Jesus Christ,Gods only character in human form..."(as a criteria for going to hell)Can the thrusts not see that this is the exact same thing!!! The threat of vicious force if not loved/accepted. It's totally messed up, barbaric, evil, immoral, senseless, futile and just a bit sillyEdited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given.Edited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given.

I keep bringing up the child analogy because believing a myth is childish.I don't link it to lack of intelligence, it's plain to me that neither you nor Faith lack intelligence. The way you both in your different ways manipulate fact to suit your conclusions show that you are indeed smart.No, it's not intelligence that's the problem, it's delusion. You're missing the point. There's no rebellion, there can't be. You can't rebel against something that doesn't exist. There is no one 'to do it better than' - the whole idea of god and religious belief is just plain silly.It's really hard to get this point across - believers seem to think that atheism is some kind of rebellion against an established structure. It isn't, it's simply a realisation that the God concept is an error.I can also tell you that in most of Northern Europe at least, the concept of rebellion is laughable because religion has lapsed so far behind society that it's become a form of rebellion to get yourself saved.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Hi, GrimSqueaker.The fastest way to learn the quote codes is to use the peek button at the lower right corner of a post that displays quote boxes.You'll then see the framing codes in plain text.You can also click the dbCodes On (help) link to the left side of your post draft to see all the available codes.

Oh I don't know. Evolutionists are usually pretty grown up as far as that goes.

Yes some babies and children would have died.The first born son in ancient cultures (and some more modern ones as well) had special importance in families though we've pretty much lost the meaning of that.It's not a "perhaps" -- The ONLY people killed were the first born sons of the Egyptians because the Hebrew slaves were protected by the Passover Lamb's blood painted on their doorposts, which is a type or symbol of the sacrifice of Christ who came some 1500 years later and whose death protects those who believe on Him from eternal punishment. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

How can u not see that the murder of even a single innocent child is beyond barbaric, I don't care what your political point is or how much freaking holier than thou you r it's not cool.The end never justifies the means of evil deeds

Again I'll say, Do bring that up with God when you see Him. I don't judge God but I know everything He does is right and "murder" can only be done by human beings, not by God, who forbids it in the Ten Commandments. We are limited in our understanding but everything God does is right and in the end we'll understand it too. For all I know all infants and young children who die are taken immediately into His presence. That's an argument some make based on the scripture.